Korean Job Discussion Forums

[syntax51]

Thank for all the good--if bad news--info!

[alabamaman]

ttompatz has stated on a number of occasions:


My advice is talk to MORE THAN ONE of the current teachers via e-mail when the boss is NOT watching over their shoulder.

If they only let you talk to one, then pass.

Ask specifically about:

+Pay: Do they really pay overtime? Get the rate settled.

+Classes: How many and what is the schedule like.?

+Pension and medical: Do they really pay into it? Does the foreign teacher have the medical plan booklet?

+Vacations: How, when, how long and who decides? This is often a very big area of contention between teachers and hakwons.

+Lunches: They are not considered a work hour. Do you have to spend it with the kids?

+Airfare to Korea should be waived after 6 months.

+ Korean Labor Laws stipulate 30 days notice prior to dismissal, not 40, 45, or 60!

[soviet_man]

I really doubt YES Youngdo has any official affiliation with CSU.

I say that because they don't have any classes for high school students! They teach 3rd graders to middle-school level only. I worked for them and never heard of such a program.

It is just an ordinary kids hagwon like all the others: Pagoda, YBM, SLP, CDI and all the others.

Pay starts at 2.0 mil and maxes out at 2.4. Nothing special about that.

The hours 2pm-10pm involve a 40 hour week. Nothing special about that either.

There are cameras in each classroom, open classes for parents to come and watch, montly report cards to write, weekly meetings, weekly training workshops, "counsellors" who will come and watch your classes frequently, and winter and summer intensives (9am to 8pm days) with their overtime rate a lousy 20,000 won per hour.

I've worked for them and have nothing but bad things to say. They have about 20 branches, some may be better than others. But most have had very high staff turnover. About 50% don't last one year and only about 20% stay for a 2nd year.

[ttompatz]

[Ilsanman]

Last I heard, they are honest about paying on time, etc.

However, they are a factory and treat teachers with little respect. Control control control.

[glass23]

I interviewed at Yes Youngdo somewhere around Dobong in Seoul and I was not impressed. I asked one of the current teachers there if I could see the apartment they put him in and it was really small like a college dorm room. I asked him about his boss and he said his boss pretty much treated his teachers like factory workers. Also, when I went into the teachers' room, I was not greeted too warmly. The native-speaking teachers were reluctant to talk to me. My impression was that they didn't want to give me the bad news that it was an employer to avoid working for. I've quoted several quotes that I've gathered from the Internet about working for Yes Youngdo below. I think the poster who said, "I'd rather work at Wendy's" summed things up nicely!

Yes Youngdo has been blacklisted to death on englishschoolwatch.org and also on Dave's ESL Cafe
http://www.englishschoolwatch.org/webboard_detail.php?topic_id=1285
Below is a copy of what I found on englishschoolwatch.org:

YES Youngdo English School (disappointing) [KOREA(South)]


This posting regards YES Youngdo English School. I began teaching at YES Youngdo in 2004 and my contract will be ending in 2005. During my time at this institution, I have seen an extremely high turn over of Korean counselors. The head teacher position has changed 6 times, until the school finally decided to have no head teacher at all. Teachers have been repeatedly taken advantage of and left high and dry without any help from the school.

Team work is non-existent and teachers are reprimanded when they try to implement new teaching materials and teaching styles. The school is very unorganized, with no written procedure on how to get things completed. Administration is incredibly slow and cannot be relied on. You need to constantly hassle the administration to get anything done quickly and correctly.

The school�s real working hours are:
M, W, F � 2 pm to 10 pm
T, TH � 2:15 pm to 10:15 pm (to my understand, most English Schools cannot be open after 10:00 pm)

Every week there are �meetings� and �workshops� that are held in which the discussion of how to curve the grades so that students will not leave the school. The grading system goes as follows:
80 � 100 is an �A�
70 � 79 is a �B�
60 � 69 is a �C�
50 � 59 is a �D�
49 � Below is an �F�

But don�t think that if you want to give a student an �F� you cannot do so unless you clear it with counselors. Even �D�s� and �C�s� are not allowed and must also be cleared with counselor teachers. The problem is, these counselor teachers don�t watch or teach the students, yet they are allowed to change the grades and challenge your judgment.

The School will always take the side of the students and the parents because they only want to make sure that they are happy. That is the real reason they are called YES Youngdo, they say �YES� to whatever the parents and students want.

The experience at YES Youngdo has been very disappointing. The school likes to think that they are providing a great service to its community but is not taking responsibility for its actions. There is not accountability for actions so no one gets blamed except for the teachers. The teachers are only looked at as a commodity.

If you are talking to YES Youngdo English School, ask them how they will only give you the cheapest ticket home at the end of your contract, even if that means having to take several connecting flights to do so. Don�t expect much flexibility or a direct flight home. Also ask about how you are to get back to the airport once they get you working. They don�t offer any help or support. Also, never accept anything less then 2.1 million won from the school, no matter what they are trying to tell you. Ask the school why there is such a high turnover rate of its Korean Staff. From my experience working at YES Youngdo, they just hate working for such an unprofessional and unethical school. Also Jonathan, YES Youngdo�s main recruiter, is very helpful to get you to Korea, but once your here, expect no help from him.

If you are looking for a school that will pay you on time, then YES Youngdo is the school for you. But do not expect to be respected or treated as a professional. It is only going to take you a year of working at any one of the 16 campuses that they have to truly understand what I mean. Good luck and do not trust or assume that YES Youngdo will take care of you in the future once they get you on your payroll. Keep yourself safe and watch your back.


Current Teacher [2005-07-07, 20:57:00][ID: 1285-6927]
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Current Teacher

You wrote, "...and teachers are reprimanded when they try to implement new teaching materials and teaching styles."

I have taught in various parts of Asia, so I understand. The teachers are reprimanded because new and innovative ideas cause the administration and non-native English speaking teachers on staff to lose face.

Instead of embracing new ideas and methods such actions are discouraged. This is how it is in many parts of Asia.

New teachers are cautioned: test the waters before you begin introducing new ideas at your school. You could lose your job, and your opportunity to remain teaching in country.

Wisdom Maker [2005-07-09, 09:33:00][ID: 1285-6938]
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I�m going to Anyang with YES Youngdo this summer (2006) and thanks to this letter I�m terrified... I bet I can�t get out of this contract anymore :S Oh great!

Lyndsay [2006-06-09, 23:27:00][ID: 1285-23124]
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Lyndsay,

Unless you have an E-2 Visa you can back out of a contract. If you are still back home just withdraw you offer.

Good Luck!

As far as the grading system, Do you think that you are working for a school? This is a business. If you are looking for a fair grading scale, I suggest you go back to a Western country and work as a public school teacher. Report cards are marketing tools only.

Teaching English in Korea is not an easy job. You have to find the right balance of education and fun. No education you are in trouble. No fun the students will not like you class and complain to their parents.

RobbieJohns [2006-10-08, 16:48:00][ID: 1285-26149]
RobbieJohns [2006-10-08, 16:48:00][ID: 1285-26150]

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I have just accepted a position with YES new campus in Busan. After reading the above postings, I am a lil concerned. Should I worry about the campus being new? It�s in Hundae Beach.

Joe [2006-12-01, 02:50:00][ID: 1285-28173]

I also found the following post on englishschoolwatch.org:
http://www.englishschoolwatch.org/notebook_detail.php?topic_id=2601
Avoid YES Youngdo in Korea [KOREA(South)]

YES Youngdo is a school with around 10 branches in Seoul and surrounding areas. I had been an excellent teacher for them at one of their schools, and was fired 2 weeks before mycontract was to end, because, and I quote "That�s just the way it is." They therefore avoided paying my legally entitled severance pay for one years� service. This behavior happens all the time - the only teachers working for YES Youngdo who ever get severance pay are those who sign on for a second year - and then run after a month or two (the smart ones). But if you only have 12 months in Korea, best work elsewhere. YES Youngdo prides itself on being sych a reputable school - don�t believe it - they will rip you off. Also over the last 6 months, they have been being investigated by the tax department, because, presumably, they�ve been underdeclaring their revenue. They asked all teachers not to carry our class lists around, and to lie if we got asked by an official during one of their raids. We had to tell anyone who asked that our class numbers were half of what they really were. Usually you�ll live in the same apartment building as your manager, who receives bonuses for firing teachers who come home late during the week. There are plenty of decent schools in Korea - YES Youngdo are dodgy, old school, and exploitative. Avoid them - no matter how smooth their sales pitch to you is.

Mark [ID: 2601-2587]

I also found the following posts here on Dave's ESL Cafe:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=50933
plato's republic
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Ancient Greece
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:40 am Post subject:
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I was going to post something about Yes Youngdo but the OP beat me to it. The one thing that baffles me is the length of their lessons. Two or three hour lessons??? WTF? Can anyone enlighten me as to what you are actually expected to teach in a two or three hour lesson? How can you keep your lesson going smoothly whilst still retaining the attention of those poor kids for a full two or three hours? I was considering applying but their crappy schedule, late finish (2pm-10pm) and average hagwon salary changed my mind.
_________________


And to quote aisainmind:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=50933
asiainmind
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: About YES
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I would never work in hagwon but here is my take on the place,

They make you stand throughout your entire lesson.

They have cameras in the classrooms that allow parents to peep in on your classes.

It's very easy to get canned before your contract is up because of the camera situation, and the way their system is set up.

Here is why:

Basically if you do one thing wrong (according to your contract) they have recourse to fire you.

If they have no interest in keeping you for another year or they get wind that you are not planning to stay. You bet your bottom dollar, you will most likely get fired shortly before your contract ends. Leaving you in the dirt for your severance pay or return airfare, and to top it all off you might have a problem getting another job if your new employer finds out you got fired from your previous job. Depending on the situation.

My best advice to you,

Never go to a place that makes you stand and has cameras everywhere. It can be very discomforting, and I wouldn't be surprised if your lessons are being broadcasted to over 3000 people.

I rather work at Wendy's.


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Posted by seoulsista
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject:

I just finished a year contract with Youngdo. I can't speak for every branch or every teacher but my experience was pretty miserable. As far as the day to day working conditions there is nothing stand out about how aweful it is but there were a number of situations that happened at my school and others in the area that were pretty agregious. I can give you a few examples:

My boyfriend and I signed a contract with them that stated we would be placed in a 1 bedroom. When we arrived we were placed in an apartment that was a single room. There were a number of other teachers all beginning at the same time as us and there apartments were the same size, however they were single individuals. I told my manager about the situation and she absolutely refused to even make a phone call or have a conversation with me about it. My boyfriend later talked to his boss and they gave us 400.00 won a month under the condition that they were going to find us another place asap. When that didn't happen and I pressed them about it and Daniel Joo ( the owner's nephew, who no longer works there) told me I was not allowed to discuss the issue with any other staff or teachers. I continued to press it and finally was given an apartment of two teachers who were leaving only because I happened to know them and specifically asked for there apartment. Since it was a relatively dumpy villa and Daniel Joo wasn't in charge anymore they gave it to us.

Another example: a couple of teacher's training at my school asked me about my apartment situation. I told them the story and they repeated it to Daniel Joo. This promted his phone call mentioned above. The couple was later told that the single room they were given was in fact a one-bedroom as their contract ascribed. They argued. They lost the arguement and pulled a runner after payday.

Another example: a teacher who arrived with me arrived on a passport and visa that ran out midway through the contract. He made supervisors aware of the situation on more than one occasion. The supervisors had months to resolve the situation. They never did. When his visa ran out they told him it was his fault and his responsibility and he would pay for the visa run or loose his job. He did.

Another example: a teacher's mother was in intensive care and the doctors were saying she was not going to make it. She asked to leave and according to the contract should not have to pay back her ticket because of a family death. Well they argued that because her mother wasn't dead yet she had to pay her own way home. Her mother died less than a week later and that teacher never recieved anything from the school.

As far as the working conditions, the classes are ridiculously long and there are cameras. Neither of these things really bothered me. The legnth of the classes for some levels are really not substantiated by the ciriculum. I spent a lot of time coming up with supplementary material. However, for me 6 hours is 6 hours.

I liked the cameras in many ways because if there was ever a problem I could just say "Look at the camera and show me." This luckily never happened to me but...

What bothered me is the following: the school I worked at had serious issues with students being placed in levels far beyond their ability or being allowed to continue to move up through the levels despite the fact that they were completely failing in every aspect of the class. This is true at most hagwons from what I hear but not at all at the one I work for now. The difference being that Youngdo's expectations are extremely higher than other hagwons and at least at my old school the student's performances were far far lower than the expectations of the school.

The resolution to this problem was not to build a reputation for excellence by forcing out students that don't perform but rather to keep the ciriculum the same and lower the grade scale to the following:
A: 100-80
B: 79-60
C: 59-30
D: 30-0
no failure

Consider that about a third of all my students were below a 50% grade.

Discipline was also a serious issue. We were told at training that for cultural reasons we were not allowed to discipline students. We were only allowed to send students out to the front desk. At the front desk the students were not disciplined even a little. In fact, after once sending a student out to be disciplined I later went out to see were he was an hour later and found him running around the hallways. When I asked if they had spoken to him they said no.

I know alot of people out there are rolling their eyes saying "that's all Hagwons," that may be true but it's not true at the one I work at now and it's not true at the ones of other teachers I have spoken to so...

Also don't expect you ten vacation days to be at all consecutive. Two here, three here, one there. You may or may not be able to travel outside of Korea depending on whether or not you want to go somewhere for four days.

Bottom line Youngdo should be a last resort for anyone thinking about signing a contract.

P.S. Please don't reply to me about my spelling or grammatical errors. It's not work-related it's a website.

[Gamecock]

Wow, so much venom!

A typical, corporate hogwan, but not the devil incarnate as depicted here. You work harder than most hogwans for average pay. The upside is it is the most above-board money-wise of any private institution I've seen in Korea. You will always get paid on time, pension and medical, and they will never try to stiff you on severance or plane ticket. Heck, they even filed a tax return for me and I got over 300,000 as a tax return when I worked there.

It's a corporate culture and you are a cog in the wheel. They won't respect you or do you any favors above the letter of the law of their contract. If you're hearty, there are far worse places to get your feet wet in Korea.

Oh, and my officetel was the nicest housing I've had in Korea...

Just a little balanced perspective.

[soviet_man]

[Ilsanman]

YES Youngdo runs a tight ship, and believe in themselves. They purposely build schools in high competition areas.

Clearly, the schools are very profitable and good for the kids, or parents, or both. People trust the Yes Youngdo name.

However, 9 times out of 10, a school like that is run like a boot camp, and I won't work at a place like that. But to some, maybe the stability is exactly what he/she is looking for.

[Junior]

[crazy_arcade]

[seoulsista]