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University gig? Excel at your peril!
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Being the most popular ain't everything it's cut out to be, because I know what it takes to be the most popular. It usually has very little to do with your teaching ability, and more to do with how much you compromise academic standards to make the students 'happy'. How much you go out and swill with em, let em out early, etc.


Not necessarily, mate. As I'm in a good mood, I won't get all in your face, but saying one's popularity with the student body

Quote:
usually has very little to do with your teaching ability


is extremely offensive to me as a top-rated teacher. I was not tops at my university because I graded the easiest, or gave my students slack, or anything of the kind. I was #1 because I was the best teacher, full stop, and like you, I had Korean profs asking to sit in to watch how I taught, and at least one video crew or photographer in per month to record my stuff for promo materials.

Watch out who you're painting with that broad brush of yours, ok?
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my university the least popular (read worst evaluation by students) teachers are the ones who do not know how to teach. They do not usually finish a contract as they are asked to leave.
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steroidmaximus



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at my current school, the prof who is most popular usually let's the students out at least 1/2 an hour early, gives them days off, assigns very little homework, and concentrates more on making em laugh in class. Meanwhile, the prof who obviously puts the most into their work, teaches the full class time, gives many assignments and is often most prepared, only logs in at #3.
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TECO



Joined: 20 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTM wrote:
...is extremely offensive to me as a top-rated teacher. I was not tops at my university because I graded the easiest, or gave my students slack, or anything of the kind. I was #1 because I was the best teacher, full stop, and like you, I had Korean profs asking to sit in to watch how I taught, and at least one video crew or photographer in per month to record my stuff for promo materials.

Blow hard - Ha, aha, ha, ha!!

Steroid Wrote:
Quote:
the prof who is most popular usually let's the students out at least 1/2 an hour early, gives them days off, assigns very little homework, and concentrates more on making em laugh in class. Meanwhile, the prof who obviously puts the most into their work, teaches the full class time, gives many assignments and is often most prepared, only logs in at #3.

You couldn't have said it any truer than that.

I can't believe there are actually people here who can't even find some truth in Steriod's statements.
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Blow hard - Ha, aha, ha, ha!!


Bite me, TECO. I'll admit I came off a bit pompous there, but I tell no lies. I'm a good teacher, and I am proud of that fact. At least, unlike you, I'm above insulting people I've never met.

Quote:
I can't believe there are actually people here who can't even find some truth in Steriod's statements.


Oh there's some truth there. What I can't believe is that there are people here (like you apparently) who can't read.
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTM wrote:
Oh there's some truth there. What I can't believe is that there are people here (like you apparently) who can't read.


lol
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steroidmaximus



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:41 am    Post subject: Good Will Hunting Reply with quote

BTM wrote:
Quote:

Oh there's some truth there. What I can't believe is that there are people here (like you apparently) who can't read.


Indeed. there are many who just fire off without seriously considering everything that has or hasn't been said.

Quote:
usuallyhas very little to do with your teaching ability


Now if I read this carefully, I don't see any statements that claim this to always be the case. If you think yourself to be an exception to the comments made, congratulations. But I stand by the rest of my post. Being most popular USUALLY has more to do with how buddy buddy you can be, and how much you work to make the students happy. In my experience, maintaining high academic standards and making all the students happy USUALLY don't go hand in hand.

Be careful of seeing absolute statements where none exist, k? And of finding insult where none is intended. . . .but I do find it interesting and amusing that you find my comments insulting, considering your response.
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Skarp



Joined: 22 Aug 2003

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointless personal insults aside.........

There are two ways to be popular. Being good and working hard is one. Giving the students an easy time is the other.

At the end of the day - the students pay so being popular (for whatever reason) is all that counts.

But, both types of popular teacher will be unpopular with those in power. Excelling is not the way to happiness in life. Don't be a threat, don't get noticed. Keep a low profile and enjoy a quiet life.

That's what I'm going to try to do from now on anyway......

Skarp
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TECO



Joined: 20 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skarp wrote:
Excelling is not the way to happiness in life. Don't be a threat, don't get noticed. Keep a low profile and enjoy a quiet life.
Skarp


You got her figured out, bro.

It reminds me of what we used to say in the military - keep your mouth shut, head down and ears open.

Nicely put, though, Skarp.
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Skarp



Joined: 22 Aug 2003

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a slow learner - but I think I'm getting it at last.

Skarp
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coolsage



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An apparent need to clarify: This was not a popularity contest; it was a survey amongst the students as to which teachers taught them English, gave them their money's worth, delivered a quality product... I don't know how many more ways I need to say this in order to convey to the Native Speakers here what the deal was. And I'm distressed to see that this thread has degenerated into personal backbiting, which it so often does, and which is why I rarely post here. The original premise is, and remains, that particularly in a small institution, where one's visibility is high, should one (that being one of us waygooks) have the audacity to achieve some success at this noble racket of ESL, the Old Boyz will inevitably feel threatened, as their power base erodes beneath them. Yes, our mission, so to speak, is to teach English, but our very presence infers a different way of interpreting the Teacher-Student relationship. My students don't bow to me, and eventually they get comfortable with calling me by my first name. Of course the Old Boyz have no resources to deal with this. And while I might have misspoke about Confucius, I was referring to the vertical hierarchy that still exists here, long after it has any value in a so-called modern, post-industrial society. The university students here today are subject to a great many influences that were not available to their predecessors, for whom the "Hermit Kingdom" worked just fine. It's not working anymore, and the colleagues of whom I wrote are merely the latest, hopefully the last, sacrificial lambs in the transition of this fascinating land into a truly cutting-edge society, one in which civility finally catches up with the technology. (But that's another topic, along with the bathrooms.)
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TECO wrote:
It reminds me of what we used to say in the military - keep your mouth shut, head down and ears open.


In Australia, it was 'heads down, bums up' which I never quite understood, exactly, but found pretty amusing anyway...
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steroidmaximus



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evaluations, surveys, whatever you wanna call it, it still boils down to the same thing: a popularity contest. you trying to tell me that when you filled out similar forms in your uni days you weren't biased? did you think some profs "cool" or "uncool", and thus give them more/less leniency? If they did nice things for you, said nice things, you didn't let that affect your answers on the form?

Quote:
And I'm distressed to see that this thread has degenerated into personal backbiting, which it so often does, and which is why I rarely post here


one person went slightly overboard. So what. What I see more of on this board is this kinda thing:

Quote:
the colleagues of whom I wrote are merely the latest, hopefully the last, sacrificial lambs in the transition of this fascinating land into a truly cutting-edge society, one in which civility finally catches up with the technology


Hey, we're English teachers, a position many of us did not train for. We're in a country with a different value system. We learn to adapt. There are things many of us hate, and want to rant about. Rant away. I'm not trying to come across as a apologist here, but hey all this stuff is not new. You can find 100 other posts about injustices at the hands of our "Korean overlords". IF you feel really strongly about it, stop preaching to the choir and go do something about it.
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Will Hunting Reply with quote

steroidmaximus wrote:


Quote:
usuallyhas very little to do with your teaching ability


Now if I read this carefully, I don't see any statements that claim this to always be the case. If you think yourself to be an exception to the comments made, congratulations.


Your point is taken, of course, and if we say 'usually,' you may well be right. I don't have enough first-hand data to say. I'd be happier with 'often' or 'sometimes,' from what I've seen, but there you go.
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steroidmaximus



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sometimes? erm. . .glad to hear you've worked at so many places that hold high academic standards then. Good on ya.
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