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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
He was still an Evil dictator nonetheless. Infact the pentagon is now in the process of declassifying videos found in Iraqi archives, mny of them of Saddam's men torturing people.
Saddam was not just some poor misunderstood soul! He was a evil man who had justice done to him. Period.
When did Saddam learn english by the way?
Also laws in Iraq fair? That man was a brutal tyrant. Opressed the Shiites and elevated the Sunnis.
GRRR I hate it when people try to play apologetics for such evil tyrants.
It's sick. When tyrants are brought down like this the world needs to know how evil they were and things they did so history doesn't repeat. |
Death is only justice when it is carried out in self-defense, preferably on the battlefield. Killing him lowered us to his level. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
He was still an Evil dictator nonetheless. Infact the pentagon is now in the process of declassifying videos found in Iraqi archives, mny of them of Saddam's men torturing people.
Saddam was not just some poor misunderstood soul! He was a evil man who had justice done to him. Period.
When did Saddam learn english by the way?
Also laws in Iraq fair? That man was a brutal tyrant. Opressed the Shiites and elevated the Sunnis.
GRRR I hate it when people try to play apologetics for such evil tyrants.
It's sick. When tyrants are brought down like this the world needs to know how evil they were and things they did so history doesn't repeat. |
Death is only justice when it is carried out in self-defense, preferably on the battlefield. Killing him lowered us to his level. |
It was the Iraqis that hung him...not "us" |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Saddam Hussein did rule Iraq with an iron fist. In recent memory, one could argue that he was the most ruthless ruler that country had and the general he helped overthrow in 1968 with the CIA's help was a dove in comparison. He was created by the Uncle Sam via the CIA indirectly and indirectly destroyed by the U.S. He was applauded when he was liquidating members of the powerful Iraqi communist party and when he launched a war against Iran. Of course, that is politics. The media is also guilty for burying so many stories about what Saddam was doing in the 1980s. His behaviour was enabled by so many for so long. He did what he did because he thought he could get away with it. He thought he had a green light to invade Kuwait. I do think he was a vicious tyrant, a butcherer who met a fet that he reserved for others. Did he have a softer side? I am sure he did. If he used more of that even in past years he would be alive today, possibly. His actions were brutal and genuinely so. Was his exchange of pleasantries with American personnel genuine.
I think so. American soldiers would have been much kinder to him than the Shiites would have been. It is clear from the revenge carried out
on Saturday. The Kurdish judge, Munir Haddad, walked out. I presume he was disgusted with how the execution was conducted. I believe the Shiites sacked a Kurdish judge. The Iraqi government wasn't interested in real justice. I don't even know if they wanted a trial. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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If Saddam Hussein had just kept being an ally to the U.S. then he wouldn't be villified by the world today. Sad but true. The man is dead. But all those who sustained his position of leadership are still walking around pointing fingers and waging war.
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WORD!! He hung himself, w@nker... Mr. arrogant, see how far it got him? |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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TUM wrote:
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| It was the Iraqis that hung him...not "us" |
Do you really think that is true? |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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BS. Can anyone here actually prove Bush or Blair ordered something thatwas committed crimes against humanity? And not just some conspriacy nuts theory?NO YOU CANT. But how ever the world witnessessed Saddam's tyranny. You can not compare Saddam to any US adminstration accurately.
Bush never ordered anyones family raped, or rodered that someones fingers be chopped off,or usedelectrical shocks to the testicals to extra information, or killed a persons family ,including children just to hurt the person who angered him. You people are out there if youthink you can compare the two. |
Bush and Blair invaded Iraq on false pretenses which lead to the death of thousands. Proof is in the pudding. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
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BS. Can anyone here actually prove Bush or Blair ordered something thatwas committed crimes against humanity? And not just some conspriacy nuts theory?NO YOU CANT. But how ever the world witnessessed Saddam's tyranny. You can not compare Saddam to any US adminstration accurately.
Bush never ordered anyones family raped, or rodered that someones fingers be chopped off,or usedelectrical shocks to the testicals to extra information, or killed a persons family ,including children just to hurt the person who angered him. You people are out there if youthink you can compare the two. |
Bush and Blair invaded Iraq on false pretenses which lead to the death of thousands. Proof is in the pudding. |
Can you prove they knew the pretenses were false BEFORE they invaded? I think not. Go back on to your hole. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
Churchill suggested that chemical weapons should be used "against recalcitrant Arabs as an experiment." He added "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes to spread a lively terror" in Iraq.
.. remarked "the only thing the Arab understands is the heavy hand[/color] |
looks like Churchill, harris and Saddam thought the same way.
there seems little point transposing our values of democracy etc and applying them to a country that has always been held to gether by savagery. If you live in the jungle you gotta be an animal to survive. Saddam could've helped to bring his country forward, yes, if he'd had a good example, in his own lifes experience, to follow.. But in reality he was just a man of his culture and successful in dealing with the reality of it.
It was like putting on trial a Lion for eating a gazelle. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| supernick wrote: |
Churchill suggested that chemical weapons should be used "against recalcitrant Arabs as an experiment." He added "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes to spread a lively terror" in Iraq.
.. remarked "the only thing the Arab understands is the heavy hand[/color] |
looks like Churchill, harris and Saddam thought the same way.
there seems little point transposing our values of democracy etc and applying them to a country that has always been held to gether by savagery. If you live in the jungle you gotta be an animal to survive. Saddam could've helped to bring his country forward, yes, if he'd had a good example, in his own lifes experience, to follow.. But in reality he was just a man of his culture and successful in dealing with the reality of it.
It was like putting on trial a Lion for eating a gazelle. |
That's sick. There is no way to justify what Saddam did.
Quit playing apologetics and face facts: He was a brutal tyrant. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
Saddam Hussein did rule Iraq with an iron fist. In recent memory, one could argue that he was the most ruthless ruler that country had and the general he helped overthrow in 1968 with the CIA's help was a dove in comparison. He was created by the Uncle Sam via the CIA indirectly and indirectly destroyed by the U.S. He was applauded when he was liquidating members of the powerful Iraqi communist party and when he launched a war against Iran. Of course, that is politics. The media is also guilty for burying so many stories about what Saddam was doing in the 1980s. His behaviour was enabled by so many for so long. He did what he did because he thought he could get away with it. He thought he had a green light to invade Kuwait. I do think he was a vicious tyrant, a butcherer who met a fet that he reserved for others. Did he have a softer side? I am sure he did. If he used more of that even in past years he would be alive today, possibly. His actions were brutal and genuinely so. Was his exchange of pleasantries with American personnel genuine.
I think so. American soldiers would have been much kinder to him than the Shiites would have been. It is clear from the revenge carried out
on Saturday. The Kurdish judge, Munir Haddad, walked out. I presume he was disgusted with how the execution was conducted. I believe the Shiites sacked a Kurdish judge. The Iraqi government wasn't interested in real justice. I don't even know if they wanted a trial. |
yup. always has to be the usa's fault. we're responsible for putting him into power, blah blah blah.
Suggestion: come up with some proof for your silly claims. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
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| It was like putting on trial a Lion for eating a gazelle. |
That's sick. There is no way to justify what Saddam did.
Quit playing apologetics and face facts: He was a brutal tyrant. |
He was a monster,yes, but in a region where might has always been right.
if he was a tyrant, then so was churchill, no?
| Quote: |
Churchill suggested that chemical weapons should be used "against recalcitrant Arabs as an experiment." He added "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes to spread a lively terror" in Iraq.
.. remarked "the only thing the Arab understands is the heavy hand |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| NAVFC wrote: |
He was still an Evil dictator nonetheless. Infact the pentagon is now in the process of declassifying videos found in Iraqi archives, mny of them of Saddam's men torturing people.
Saddam was not just some poor misunderstood soul! He was a evil man who had justice done to him. Period.
When did Saddam learn english by the way?
Also laws in Iraq fair? That man was a brutal tyrant. Opressed the Shiites and elevated the Sunnis.
GRRR I hate it when people try to play apologetics for such evil tyrants.
It's sick. When tyrants are brought down like this the world needs to know how evil they were and things they did so history doesn't repeat. |
Death is only justice when it is carried out in self-defense, preferably on the battlefield. Killing him lowered us to his level. |
It was the Iraqis that hung him...not "us" |
The collective 'us', the global citizen 'us', the one's who are from countries that have gained from the war in Iraq 'us'. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Can you prove they knew the pretenses were false BEFORE they invaded? I think not. Go back on to your hole. |
The intelligence that was used was faulty. Advisors and CIA officials warned Bush that they could not confirm their intelligence. Bush and the boys refused to listen.
Can I prove that they knew that their pretenses were false? No, but we do have evidence that Bush and the boys were manipulating intelligence. Officials who disagreed with the intelligence that Bush was preaching were soon silenced.
Before the war, there were conflicting reports of WMD in Iraq. A few months of further inspections would have revealed if the so called "CIA intelligence reports" had any sort of accuracy, but some hawks didn't want to wait.
When a country chooses to invade another country because they view that country to be a threat because of "evidence", then that country had better make sure that "evidence" is solid, and it clearly wasn't.
I could google up reports where intelligence officers and advisors to Bush have stated that intelligence was cherry picked, but there's no need as most of the sane world knows how Bush and the boys were bent on war regardless of any intelligence.
More will come of this in the coming years. I hope I'm not in my hole when the final reports come out.
What I do know, is that I believed that Iraq did not pose to be the threat that Bush claimed it was. The U.S.A. lead the war on what we now know was based on false allegations, and much of what was said by Bush and the boys has now be proved to be not true.
Oh, one more thing; Rumsfeld approved torture. What accured at Abu prison was just some runover from Gitmo. Sure, not as bad as what happened during Saddams tenure. I'm sure that every prisoner who was tortured was told "Think yourself lucky that we are under Rumy's orders and not Saddam's". |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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yup. always has to be the usa's fault. we're responsible for putting him into power, blah blah blah.
Suggestion: come up with some proof for your silly claims.[/quote]
This is common knowledge and has been reported in the press for years. It is common knowledge the CIA helped the Ba'athists gain power in 1968 and helped in the overthrow of General Abdel Karim Qassim. They did not like General Qassim. The Ba'athists then started liquidating Iraqi communists when they seized power. If you do some research on the subject, you will find the relationship was clearly there. So many have written about this for a long time. Tony Benn said it on the air to Larry King a few days ago. Robert Fisk wrote about it recently. So many others have. The CIA had a very long relationship with the Ba'ath party in Iraq. I can understand your skepticism. Skepticism is healthy. Check those two links.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/longroad/etc/cron.html
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/2003/0303deceit.htm |
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