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how can the US keep doing this?
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mytime

Joined: 15 Oct 2006

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:37 am Post subject:

Hmm thanks for the list I was just guessing before but now I'm certain that none of my countrymen died in the attacks

chotaerang

Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Location: In the gym

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:08 am Post subject:

Quote:

It's my guess that many (most?) feel that the tragedy of innocent lives lost is the same as the British public felt when the RAF bombed Nazi-occupied France and killed innocent people.

No comparison. And idiotic metaphor, you should retake grade 10 English and brush up on the use of similes. Plain, psychotic reasoning, the same kind that allows the higher ups to send in the bombs and kill.....they say, "well, we are doing good." Then it is back to their steak and tax payers provisios

DD[/quote]

In what way is this comparison - between the loss of innocent life in World War 2 and the loss of life in modern war - invalid?

Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:17 am Post subject:

ddeubel wrote:

It's a winner, folks. Most ddeumbasstic statement of the year!

stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:25 am Post subject:

UrbanMyth: I second the vote for mateomiguel's post. ddeubel: You need to retake 7th Grade. That wasn't a metaphor; it was an analogy and a rather sound one at that. Hope you're teaching in a hagwon and not a university.

ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:52 am Post subject:

Quote:

ddeubel:

You need to retake 7th Grade. That wasn't a metaphor; it was an analogy and a rather sound one at that. Hope you're teaching in a hagwon and not a university.

Well, I hope you are selling swamp land, you'd be good at it. Since when pray tell, has a metaphor not been a type of analogy?

Quote:

Billions are spent on SMART weaponry to avoid civilian casualties!
To avoid killing our own men? BS! As in modern day war 80% of the time during the heavy bombings are men arent on the ground yet, thats why we bomb, to soften a area up and prep the battle field.

Yes, billions. You can see as far as your nose but not further........ advance the rationale to its end and you will find the carrot swinging. The advanced nations could not use carpet, "dumb" bombs (and my use of the word dumb was an "allusion" not a technical term, last time.) so they had to develop new means to provide a rationale for "killing". The rationale developed when they developed missles accurate enough to hit a target. So forever after they could say, "we did all we could". In essence, it is a way of assauging public opinion while still getting away with categorical murder.....that is all it is.

Let's do a thought experiment. An Al Qaeda member is in a house but so to is George Bush's daughter. Do you strike? Well by your rationale, yes. But you can be sure as hell certain they wouldn't. Why? Because it is all about protecting "our" lives meanwhile mouthing platitudes about the sanctity of life and protecting life and how all are created equal. BS.

Back to the point about not seeing far enough. Weapons are developed to be precise , precisely to allow for maximal damage, minimal outlay (of material, explosive, work). Efficiency, pure and raw, economic efficiency. Which in total , is about protecting the military, the men on the ground. Trouble with this? There are no men on the ground. There is no war.....

I think I've awoken amidst a Kafkian story here.....all this mention of war, the barbarians at the gates. Yet where is the war? Please show me? The only war is the fiction, the advertising job the govt has sold on everyone. There is no war and not even a legal war, if there could ever be such. And we don't have to go into the specifics regarding this, do we.....for a hundredth time? There is no war?

And that is the problem with the "smilie" proposed about how civilian deaths in world war two are the same as at present. They aren't! There is no legal war, there is no enemy but who the govt says, there are but shadows. Yes, there are bad men, they are criminals. But legally, historically, there is not a single notion, a single factual comparison to be made between what exists at present and "war". This term only developed through the speech writers and the speech pathology of one Texan versed in that time old Texan skill of exaggeration.

But yeah, like I pointed out elsewhere, the yahoos will still continue with their phallic fantasies of pointed guns and explosions of delight....... God , where is the Swift of this age, when we need him....

DD

DD

Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:12 am Post subject:

Dude, you are in serious need of some grammar lessons. Serious.

Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: Re: how can the US keep doing this?

[quote="NAVFC"]

mytime wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6243459.stm

Almost every time the US military has an airstrike innocent people get hurt.

I'm just wondering....when the average American sees this on the news and he hears that innocent bystanders got killed...what is his reaction?

Does he: care; ignore it; not even hear that part; feel a little sorry; feel shame; feel really bad ?

Can anyone help me out here?

I would love to hear how these attacks can be justified objectively

You need to shut up and go strangle yourself. Now.
You are a moron if you think that the only time civilians ever die in a war is when it is the US.
You talk as if civilian casualties only exist in US wars. BULL.
Its war and people will die, civilians.

[You raise interesting points, but you go over the top and kind of bully the poster. Is that really called for, slick?

I will answer in a different way. The media does not focus on the civilians killed when certain political objectives, the media powers that be, feel need to be accomplished and sometimes those goals may be viewed as noble by some including smashing Al Qaeda. Sometimes, civilian deaths are not reported adequately because the media believes in some self-censorship, so the average person may not know in depth about this, so you are criticizing the average American, maybe, for something he basically often doesn't know and it is like people are going out of the way to tell him or her what is happening in detail. Reporting in the style of the Vietnam war is long gone.

As far as what others said, civilians do get killed in shelling. As I understand a Somali official stated that 31 civilians were killed. Getting involved in a direct way in Somalia may simply anger the Somali population and that may be a risk to contend with. Yes, the fleeing Pakistani and Somali Islamists brought upon themselves their own liquidation.

As far as Chechnya, the U.S. media underplays the genocide going on in Chechnya because Russia is an ally and Islamists have a strong presence there. Also, Russia underplays it. It is pretty clear Al Jazeera and some Arab networks also follow the same line and underplay Chechnya because the Arabs are more concerned about Palestinians and getting
Russia on the side of the Palestinians is more important than paying to the Chechnyans. Some call it Real Politik.

I am all for helping the Somali people, and I understand the U.S. government doesn't want to put troops on the ground to face the Islamists but the risk is killing lots of civilians from the air. As far as the example of Germany, the Allies weren't trying to win the hearts and minds of the Germans. So that example doesn't work.

I say help the Somali government to deal with it and avoid Somali casualties and too direct of a role. At least, that is my opinion.

stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:42 am Post subject:

ddeubel:

Even the man in your avatar is laughing at you. Since you mention yahoos, I thought this might be appropriate as a response to elevate your understanding of literary devices:

Quote:

Dear Yahoo!:

What's the difference between a simile, a metaphor, and an analogy?
Peter
Columbus, Ohio

Dear Peter:

While these three terms are related, their meanings are subtly different. To help understand the distinction, we consulted a number of sources -- American Heritage Dictionary, the Yahoo! Grammar, Usage, and Style category, and web search results for the three terms.
The dictionary defines a "metaphor" as a figure of speech that uses one thing to mean another and makes a comparison between the two. For example, Shakespeare's line, "All the world's a stage," is a metaphor comparing the whole world to a theater stage. Metaphors can be very simple, and they can function as most any part of speech. "The spy shadowed the woman" is a verb metaphor. The spy doesn't literally cast his shadow on the woman, but he follows her so closely and quietly that he resembles her own shadow.

A simile, also called an open comparison, is a form of metaphor that compares two different things to create a new meaning. But a simile always uses "like" or "as" within the phrase and is more explicit than a metaphor. For example, Shakespeare's line could be rewritten as a simile to read: "The world is like a stage." Another simile would be: "The spy was close as a shadow." Both metaphor and simile can be used to enhance writing.

An analogy is a bit more complicated. At the most basic level, an analogy shows similarity between things that might seem different -- much like an extended metaphor or simile. But analogy isn't just a form of speech. It can be a logical argument: if two things are alike in some ways, they are alike in some other ways as well. Analogy is often used to help provide insight by comparing an unknown subject to one that is more familiar. It can also show a relationship between pairs of things. This form of analogy is often used on standardized tests in the form "A is to B as C is to D."

DD, stop that scribbling and pay attention!

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

Can anyone help me out here?

It's my guess that many (most?) feel that the tragedy of innocent lives lost is the same as the British public felt when the RAF bombed Nazi-occupied France and killed innocent people.

I don't see the parallel. At the time, the Germans were also bombing British civillians. I haven't yet heard of the Somalians flying over the US and bombing US civillians.

It seems to me all this bombing is only going to flame Islamic radicalism in that part of Africa...rather than contain it. Confused

Another win for Al Qaeda.

cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

Can anyone help me out here?

It's my guess that many (most?) feel that the tragedy of innocent lives lost is the same as the British public felt when the RAF bombed Nazi-occupied France and killed innocent people.

Another win for Al Qaeda.

Yoh! al Qaida is in Somalia in force, at the invite of the Islamic courts you can go back to you nap now.

Once Somalia is controlled the AQ Presence in Africa will dwindle. The Africa strategy will begin to unfold over the next several months sit back and watch.

cbc

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject:

cbclark4 wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

Can anyone help me out here?

It's my guess that many (most?) feel that the tragedy of innocent lives lost is the same as the British public felt when the RAF bombed Nazi-occupied France and killed innocent people.

Another win for Al Qaeda.

And how do you advocate controlling them? Carpet bombing the whole of Africa? HAHAHAhahahaha

cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject:

Ethiopia is in control along with the UN recognized Somali Gov't. cbc

ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject:

Quote:

ddeubel:

Even the man in your avatar is laughing at you. Since you mention yahoos, I thought this might be appropriate as a response to elevate your understanding of literary devices:

McGarett, quite the source you use! Seems you know how to dredge and drag up dead bodies (that is a metaphor by the way). Other answers by these "experts" clearly state that a metaphor is a form of analogy.

Sorry but for you to refute that a metaphor is a type of analogy just shows how you don't get it at all. Please look it up in OED. I don't have the time to type it out or again take it down off the shelf. I'll only say, it states, an ANALOGY is a broad descriptive category of showing similarity between two things.

Quote:

analogy
/nalji/

� noun (pl. analogies) 1 a comparison between one thing and another made to explain or clarify. 2 a correspondence or partial similarity.

A metaphor is different only in the sense of how it goes about its job, not categorically. It is a form of analogy. As Wikipedia says,

Quote:

Specific analogical language comprises exemplification, comparisons, metaphors, similes, allegories, and parables, but not metonymy

This might be from where your confusion stems;

Quote:

When analysing a metaphor, we then notice aspectual similarities between it and a different metaphor and say 'X of metaphor A resembles Y of metaphor B'; this is analogy, and the ability to do this rests with the sharing of the proposed template.

From this it becomes obvious that there is a definite distinction between analogy and metaphor - analogy is aspectual whereas metaphor is wholistic. However, since any 'whole' can at times be an aspect of a greater whole then it can be used in an analogous form and this can cause confusion in one is not aware of the levels of analysis.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond/analog.html

DD

But let's get back on subject and stop flogging a dead fish. (analogy).

Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject:

ddeubel wrote:

McGarett, quite the source you use!

Reminds me of this guy...

stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject:

DD: It's one thing to be ignorant and quite another to be willfully ignorant as you are. Keeping trying to convince yourself. The way you employed it was as an analogy, not as a metaphor. If they were one and the same the language wouldn't need two words to describe it. Plig: Touching of you to post a photo of your old flame.

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