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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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 Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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When I saw the numbers of soldiers being sent (a small fraction of what was used in the first Gulf War) and when I saw soldiers and marines running around in woodland BDUs, I knew somthing was up.
But being a vet, I had to support my brothren at the time.
Now as I see that it has turned from popular liberation to political occupation, I am very skeptical of the whole thing.
I got some good news; My National Guard IS NOT part of the current "troop surge"....you don't know how relieved I was to hear that news 
seoulsucker
I found that statement shockingly relevent to the situation today; If the British (and its puppet monarchy) couldn't subjecate the Iraqis from 1918 to 1938, how can the US do it now, with almost no strategy? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
twg and buncheonbum:
Funny how the forum's snipers can dish it out but can't take it. |
Umm yeah. And what exactly leads you to that conclusion?
And I look fwd to your rebuttel of the post gang ah jee mentions (can't forget him, we're a triumvirate you know!)
And you never did come up with a rebuttel on this thread:
Iraq solutions |
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seoulsucker
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| lastat06513 wrote: |
seoulsucker
I found that statement shockingly relevent to the situation today; If the British (and its puppet monarchy) couldn't subjecate the Iraqis from 1918 to 1938, how can the US do it now, with almost no strategy? |
I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that the quote was from 1933. But when you consider that Iraq as a nation was carved out of a region that has suffered sustained tribal infighting for centuries, it's no wonder they can't all just get along. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
Its not an overestimation of the countries capabilties. The US is fully capable of achieving its goals. The full military force of the United States was never brought to bear in Iraq. Its a matter of willingness, political entanglement, and overconfidence. Among other things. The US government isn't gonna do what it takes to win the war and leave something like a stable government, so it should leave and do so pronto. Its delaying the inevitable. |
Oh yeah, the US could easily invade and defeat the military of any country on the planet (well, not now, but without the Iraq invasion they would've been able to). However, invasion is just the first step. Then you have to pacify the people, set up a new infrastructure, and arrange a good long-term government. One out of four is not going to cut it.
I think the US should make Iraq the 51st state, because that country is never going to go away. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
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bummer:
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| And you never did come up with a rebuttel on this thread: |
You mean rebuttal? I think I made it clear that I weary of you and your ilk. Nothing more; nothing less. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Examples of bad arguments:
Ignore contradictory evidence:
This would be where someone provides a contradictory argument and you realize you are wrong but know you cannot defend your position so you ignore the argument. Whaah!, spit the dummy, stomp your feet, refuse to play.
Often this bad argument is followed by some type of ad hominem attack as a diversion. In this case an attack on someone�s spelling (as if that has anything to do with reason) but more than likely can be classified as another variant of ad hominem; i.e. trying to allude to the opponent as being stupid.
A number of years ago I read a book about the Bedouin. The Bedouin have ideas that are at complete odds with democracy. The warrior code, the blood killings and revenge, the tribal nature of the Middle East are the antithesis of democracy. The idea that democracy will take hold in the way the U.S. wants it to, and the idea of some domino effect occurring in the Middle East is � well, you�re old enough to remember the domino argument being used for the war in Vietnam.
Steve, you appeared to suggest that the current crisis in Iraq is not the fault of U.S. intervention. Where have you been the last 4 years? Did you fail to read the news, or is Fox Network your current-event provider?
So:
weapons of mass destruction = wrong
Iraq link with El Qaeda = wrong
democracy dominos = wrong
It�s a bad war and the U.S. is wrong, wrong, wrong. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:06 am Post subject: |
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I think we can all agree that the war is totally wrong in all ways.
However, it's what people think we should do now that everyone's arguing over. Some say pull out, some say stay. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Agree.
But as long as the U.S. has a commander in chief who believes this is a �winnable war� getting out of it is not an option; let alone the discussion of how.
The U.S. must realize this: there will not be a military victory in Iraq. That option has long passed.
While Bush thinks victory is a viable option he will continue to send some of my good friend�s sons and daughters to their deaths. I like Americans; I am saddened to see how good friends have been deceived. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| Cerebroden wrote: |
| otis wrote: |
| "We prefer living in the Middle Ages. Going to the bathroom in the backyard with the family Camel is our kind of scene. We are knuckle-dragging dirt-eaters! Always have been; always will be. |
and let me guess, when you got to korea you thought that everyone here lived in small huts and did nothing but harvest rice? |
Replace "rice" with "cotton" and you got what he was leaving behind.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
I really don't know where to begin and really wonder why I should bother. So I won't. It's tiresome. |
Oh! No!
PLEASE, Steve! Please don't deny us all the informed wisdom that can only twenty eight PhDs, and an undying love of 70s musical icons like David Cassidy can bring the world! |
Same ol' Backdoor Becky.
You attack people personally.
Yet, if I were to attack you, you'd immediately run to the moderators.
But good news, Fat Billy.
I've taken some sexy naked pictures of myself. Feel free to post them on your blargh.
After all, your good friend homocandy needs a new avatar. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
bummer:
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| And you never did come up with a rebuttel on this thread: |
You mean rebuttal? I think I made it clear that I weary of you and your ilk. Nothing more; nothing less. |
Now get this story.
On January 20, Iraqis--dressed in American uniforms--stormed a police station that had five American soldiers inside.
Four American soldiers were captured. They were later found shot execution style.
Who shot them? Here's the disturbing part: Two high-ranking officers in the Iraqi military. You know! The good guys who are getting all out tax dollars so they can get back on their feet.
Our boys have to die for people like that?
The American military is not a police force. Get them out. The mission is accomplished. Saddam is dead. |
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blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: Re: My Problem with the Iraqi war |
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| otis wrote: |
To me, the Iraqi people as a whole seem like a bunch of knuckle-scraping, backward dirt-eaters.
In fact, that's how I would describe the entire Middle East--excluding Israel.
Are these morons really worth a single drop of American blood?
I'm starting to think not.
Get out.
Let the Saudis and Jordanians come in to defend the Suni.
The Iranians can defend the Shiite.
If Iran wants to go nuke, let Israel take care of the problem. |
of course wearing the stain of so much innocent blood on our hands is simply not acceptable. but if our presence were gone tomorrow, would it somehow be more humane since it wouldn't be americans dying? if we pulled out too soon, the REAL slaughter would begin within a week and would not end for years. just because we wouldn't be there to witness the consequences doesn't mean they wouldn't happen.it has occurred too often in history to be blind to the results. to think iraq would somehow be an exception is a dangerous game to play. but it is the responsibility of the american people to ensure that does not happen. we can blame our president/representatives, but they serve at the pleasure of the people. they are not royalty and did not inherit the office by divine right. we as a people voted our leaders into office, we americans are ultimately responsible for what happens in iraq. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: Re: My Problem with the Iraqi war |
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| blynch wrote: |
| otis wrote: |
To me, the Iraqi people as a whole seem like a bunch of knuckle-scraping, backward dirt-eaters.
In fact, that's how I would describe the entire Middle East--excluding Israel.
Are these morons really worth a single drop of American blood?
I'm starting to think not.
Get out.
Let the Saudis and Jordanians come in to defend the Suni.
The Iranians can defend the Shiite.
If Iran wants to go nuke, let Israel take care of the problem. |
of course wearing the stain of so much innocent blood on our hands is simply not acceptable. but if our presence were gone tomorrow, would it somehow be more humane since it wouldn't be americans dying? if we pulled out too soon, the REAL slaughter would begin within a week and would not end for years. just because we wouldn't be there to witness the consequences doesn't mean they wouldn't happen.it has occurred too often in history to be blind to the results. to think iraq would somehow be an exception is a dangerous game to play. but it is the responsibility of the american people to ensure that does not happen. we can blame our president/representatives, but they serve at the pleasure of the people. they are not royalty and did not inherit the office by divine right. we as a people voted our leaders into office, we americans are ultimately responsible for what happens in iraq. |
What innocent blood are you talking about?
The US went in and took out a dictator who had killed a million of his own people.
Now these liberated men are slaughtering each other because of their religion.
So what's with the innocent blood. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Saddam murdered a million people?
Wow, that's the over-statement of the decade. |
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