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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| faster wrote: |
I also cringe a little at "ofTen," but it's not going away, so I'll learn to tolerate it.
Another common case of overcorrection is the reflexive pronoun:
"There were three of us there: Bob, John, and myself"
Pretty awesome when pro athletes bust this one out:
"A player like myself wants to have the ball in your hands with the game on the line."
Which also brings up the annoying use of "you" as a distancing first-person:
"So, how'd you feel up there at the plate, in the bottom of the ninth, with the tying run on second, Mike?"
"I felt good, Bob, in those situations you just try to make good contact."
(Uh, no, Mike, I don't; YOU do. I just watch you on TV.) |
I think I love you. |
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Boodleheimer
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Novernae wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
I know about that, but I prefer to say it by pronouncing the T. It just sounds better to my ear. Comparisons to listen and soften be damned, unless you think through should be pronounced based on the pronunciation of rough and trough. 
Once I read about it like this: people with no education tend to say offen. People with a little education look down on those people as uneducated dunces, and say often. People who really do have an education and know about this will say offen, and look down upon the middle group for looking down on the others. So I've heard it said. |
That theory is called over-correction. It's for that same reason that many people say the subject pronoun 'I' in cases where they should be saying the object pronoun 'me' because all they remember is what their mom used to say "it's you and I" but they (and in many cases their moms) never learned the correct usage and can't distinguish between the two. |
that's a middle-class trait as well. (i'm middle-class myself, but i'm edumacated enough to know what to say.) it has to do with trying to speak "very good English" and make a good impression. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| Kimchi Cowboy wrote: |
| Do you also remember the time when "terrific" meant scary and horrible? |
No. I'm not that old. Though, okay, I do grok such usages as "It gave me such a terrific jolt of fear, I wet my pants."
Other silent T-words to console my grief.
Nestle
Pestle
Rustle
Wrestle
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I worked for Nestle for about seven years (on and off) and never heard someone not pronounce the T. I think they sold the other pronunciation to another company for a huge profit. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
| Kimchi Cowboy wrote: |
| Do you also remember the time when "terrific" meant scary and horrible? |
No. I'm not that old. Though, okay, I do grok such usages as "It gave me such a terrific jolt of fear, I wet my pants."
Other silent T-words to console my grief.
Nestle
Pestle
Rustle
Wrestle
. |
I worked for Nestle for about seven years (on and off) and never heard someone not pronounce the T. I think they sold the other pronunciation to another company for a huge profit. |
I think he meant 'nestle' (the verb) that rhymes with pestle (not the chocolate company).
Last edited by Grimalkin on Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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The English verb is nestle as in nessel.
The Swiss company is NesT-Lay.
And I think that's pretty funny. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Once - in roughly 2000 - I thought 'often' could be spelled 'offen' as well as pronounced. A German female friend of mine corrected me. I confidently went to dictionary.com to get the link for 'offen' but of course no such thing exists. I was devastated. Ever had your English corrected by a foreigner? Christ, it's humiliating. Being corrected by a woman is bad enough! 
In Korea, one should teach 'often' (inc the 't') because 어프튼 I can comprehend....어픈 in this context I'd probably not understand. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: |
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It comes from German, the adjective "oft." You pronounce the T.
So....pronouncing the T is ok and has NOTHING to do with soft, listen or the rest of it. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
It comes from German, the adjective "oft." You pronounce the T.
So....pronouncing the T is ok and has NOTHING to do with soft, listen or the rest of it. |
No, YOU pronounce the T. I don't. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: |
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I pronounce the t when often comes in the middle of a sentence, skip it when I say it alone.
I wonder if there are other words i pronounce differently depending on context. |
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Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
I wonder if there are other words i pronounce differently depending on context. |
Yup, there are. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| * often, pronounced with /t/, though the pronunciation without it is more prevalent. Older dictionaries don't even list the pronunciation with /t/, though the 2nd edition of the OED does (and the first ed. notes the pronunciation, with the comment that it is prevalent in the south of England and "often used in singing" (!); see the Dictionary of American Regional English for contemporaneous citations discussing the status of the competing pronunciations) |
I'd say it's far from clear. The OED as far back as 1929 lists often with a T as an alternative pronunciation. Often, soften, listen, hasten, chasten do not all have the same etymological roots so assuming that they must all be pronounced in the same manner is illogical. |
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rednblack
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: In a quiet place
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote] "You and me Sunday driving, not arriving, on our way.."
Qinella, you old sod. I thought I was the only person around this joint who thought this was a cool song. |
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