Korean Job Discussion Forums

[freethought]

A hot topic among my friends and I has been what constitutes legitimate criticism of Korea, Koreans, and the state of affairs here, and what constitutes intolerance and bigotry. We've yet to come to an understanding, yet alone an agreement.

Everyday on this board multiple threads are posted that take aim at something... sometimes a singular event, sometimes a greater social phenomena on the whole. I'd venture to say at least 50% of the time these posts are mundane, but more often than not flat out stupid.

So what is legit in your view and what crosses that fine, invisible, and HIGHLY relative line in the sand and constitutes bigotry? Today we have, in no particular order:

1. Korean table manners
2. behaviour of Korean children
3. General pleasant experiences with Koreans this week
4. a must read for foreigners who want to understand Korean society.

Just to state my very rough position, I'm fairly libertarian and so I think people should be able to say whatever the hell they want. What they say, however, is not necessarily valid or intelligent.

I don't want to take away anyone's right to b-it-ch about their lives and the events that impact them, but at what point does b- tching stop being that and start being something much worse. I ask because everyday on this board there are plenty of highly contentious issues raised which could easily fall into either category.

[kat2]

I think the line is between
--its wierd and wrong and something should be done
and
--its wierd and I'm never gonna understand it, but so it goes

Of course, I try to stay on the side of the second optoin, but everyone has their bad days now and again. When you start having more days like the former rather than the latter, its time to get out of this place though.

[venus]

[RACETRAITOR]

I think another problem is observing one thing and assuming it's universal among Koreans. My wife stopped being friends with an English guy once because every time she did something, he said "So that's how Koreans do it." No, actually she's very unconformist and does things her own way.

[rothkowitz]

A lot of students in the past,as well as people I've met have the habit of using the words "Korean","traditional" and "foreigner" far,far too much.

Perhaps these words mean something to them,but they mean little or nothing to me.

Ask for an explanation about something,say,a certain dish,and you're bound to hear "Korean traditional food."and that will be about it-it's said as if it means something.

Similarly,there's a reliance on explaining something as simply "Korean Style",but they perhaps can't imagine how opaque and ultimately useless such a description is.

Some exasperation for me with Koreans comes from how crap their explanations are,just as much as I find it frustrating how they fall back on oversimplifications of foreigners.

Even the term foreigner grates on my nerves because it's not something I use and i find it so insipid eg foreigners like/do this......foreigners dislike/don't do....."It's popular with foreigners" etc etc

The term "people in my/your country" might be better.

The remark about all Koreans not being the same is a salient point though.Whenever I hear of "Korean-ness" I have to wonder just whose concept of that is being used and why.

[naimah116]

Rather than repeat everything I've already said the past few days on this, please check out people's responses to a similar question on my post started a few days ago titled "Racism." I'm glad to see other people asking the same questions.

[RACETRAITOR]

[Chamchiman]

I try not to think much, but here goes...

I'm like some people who claim to be libertarian and feel that people ought to be able to think and say what they want so long as it isn't doing any harm, ie. nobody's basic human rights are being threatened or compromised. Holding aside the question of whether I agree or not or think it's intelligent or valid or not, I don't have a problem with someone saying, "There are too many freethoughts in our world today, the world would be better off with less freethoughts, and if freethoughts didn't reproduce and eventually died off, I'd be none-too-fussed about it." But I do have a problem with someone saying, "There are too many freethoughts in our world today, the world would be better off with less freethoughts, and I'm going to cut off the pornsak of every freethought I can find so they stand a better chance of dying off."

As far as rothkowitz' post goes, I'd comment but I don't feel it has much of anything to do with the OP. Except perhaps the second-last paragraph.

[Young FRANKenstein]

[RACETRAITOR]

[rothkowitz]

I could eat a kebab every day no problem.And a curry for dinner.

But noooooooo....it's always pi-char and ham-bo-gor.

[Unposter]

I wonder what the ratio of intelligent thoughts to thoughts the average person has?

[luvnpeas]

[Unposter]

In a more serious vein...

The problem is the tone in which we address this problem. There is a lot of blaming going on but it is like blaming someone for getting a disease. Sure, people are partly to blame for coming to Korea in the first place but you put a pile of money out and lure any one with a college degree and well we all know the results.

International living is rife with hazzards. Professional anthropologists and diplomats have been stepping in it since the beginning of time. We still have scholars talking about clash of civilizations and culture wars. Even the Pope can step into it insulting Muslims in an attempt to talk about "scholary" issues.

Let's send a bunch of kids half way around the world to a culture they nothing about without any training or even government supervision and somehow everything will work out. Yeah right.

Most people here are grappling with much more difficult issues than they realize. Hey, people do things differently than I do seems a basic concept to some; to others in calls into question their whole worldview.

Some of these topics are laughable but it is a little bit like laughing at a question in a sex education class. To all the in the know people, it is rediculousness. But, to that one (innocent or ignorant -- you choose) person, they really need to ask and to know. We don't want to stifle them.

I say keep Dave's an open forum for people struggling living in a culture other than their own. Let the veterans among us answer questions and impart whatever wisdom they have learned but lets not stop people from asking the stupid questions. And if we have some fun talking about something really stupid like the other sex well I guess that just shows that we grew up in the West after the sexual revolution and we now feel comfortable talking about it in public.

[The Soju Hoju]

It really astounds me that people from the various western countries that contribute to this site even bat an eyelid and some of the trivial, unimportant things that happen here. Korea does not have a multi-cultural society. I lived in the UK and people do not refer to anyone from another country as ' foreigners '. Most people (if they knew the persons race) would simply state, he/she is Chinese/Japanese...etc...etc. However, there is a small but politically active group known as the British National Party (BNP). Try and understand this........if you really want to see racism then take a trip to certain parts of east London or any other western country...in London certain parties don't refer to Asians as Asians...they call them ' Paki's ' irrespective of whether they are from India or any other subcontinental country. And they don't just comment on it...if your in the wrong place at the wrong time they will also severely beat you. That is racism my friends.

My wife and I recently tried to get an apartment for rent.....everything was going okay until they found out we were ' weygookins ' then after a few days the deal fell through. So what should we have made of that? Racism? Maybe the landlord didn't want the hassle of dealing with people who couldn't speak his mother tongue, that's cool and justified.........racism? Maybe, maybe not...but I could twist it to sound like it.

If the ESL community continues to grow in a similar way to China then in 10 years maybe you won't witness' Omma weygookin imneeda ' anymore but does it really offend you. There are lots of negative things we can discuss about Korea but personally, I like walking home safe, no druggies trying to rob me. I find certain things about here ( the whole dog eating thing is inhumane and should be stopped immediately) annoying but it's still a better environemt than the one I'm used and racism is a worldwide disease as is spitting and prostitution. I think some of you need to get out more.