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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Coffeecup wrote: |
| Actually, that's the way most all Westerners live their lives when amongst the Japanese -- quite seperated from one another. It's like, "I am having my Japanese experience, no matter how rotten fair or pleasant, and you are having your experience, so let's each have our own experience by ourselves, after all we're here to be amongst the Japanese." If you don't know what I mean by that, you'll sense it almost immediately once you get there. |
Thats one of the biggest things I've noticed on trips to Japan. Its basically as you said, everyones to busy having their 'Japanese experience'. I kind of felt like that, alot of the expats were just kind of space cadets out on their own ego trips of being in Japan. It really got me down, and I picked up on that vibe immediately, particularly at hostels, and even moreso in bars, etc. Perhaps it could have been as I wasn't into Japan as they were either though.. I just don't take that country or any country that seriously as some of the expats do.
Having said that, I'm still interesting in that country of Japan, but hands down, I really enjoy hanging out with alot of expats in Korea for their down-to-earth nature, and other interesting attributes. Plus I find expats in Korea seem to travel, search, question everything significantly moreso. Expats in Japan are kind of at the 'be-all, end-all' and lost alot of interest in things outside of Japan. They also seem to build up this great Japan experience until one day they just explode or something, and leave Japan never wanting to go back again as if their awareness that the be-all, end-all was only just some kind of cult or something.
All I gotta say, something weird is happening over there!  |
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rush
Joined: 17 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:48 am Post subject: |
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when it comes to women it doesnt get ANY better than Japan
It is the land of milk and honey ... pure and simple
Itaewon is ok if you like the easy girls |
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captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 3:35 am Post subject: |
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went to japan for a day, fukuoka, the day before yesterday. on the hydrofoil (the trip back was bumpy, typhoon mae-mi. we thought we'd have to get out those bright orange 'shark attractant' life vests with the disco light and whistle on a string). so we walked around, two other guys and i, bashing korea in comparison to wonderful japan. basically, korea is rough, and japan is smooth. and the japanese women don't regard you as if you are somehow related to american soldiers and subject to fits of violence. or as out of the question because you are foreign. those japanese gals look back at a guy with a purring sense of warmth in their eyes, as if nothing is 'agin the notion, for them, that they could be your kitten and you their tom for the night, for 'ever'. it just doesn't matter that you are a 'foreigner'. in fact, they seem to like it, lap it up. and they ride around on bikes on their short skirts, and i just had to say 'ahhh, japan'.
i've heard they race their peers to lose their virginity as if it's an impediment, a hang up in the way of living. in short, eye candy all the way. and appearance-wise? that they look back without any serious attitude re; sex with a foreigner, as if to tell you it's out of the question, that makes 'the eyes windows to the soul' in a beautiful way; butterflies all.
but korea has had some hard knocks in its history. japan has basically had a cruise, crafting its refinement. and yes, at the expense of korea. so if korea is comparatively backward, that's no fault of koreans themselves.
i can see why expat teachers get all wrapped up in amplifying their japan experience until they're fit to explode. it's more refined than canada, where i come from. ooooh, japan's so smoooooth, don't speak, don't speak! ahhhhh  |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:09 am Post subject: Re: Japan VS. Korea |
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| Kiddirts wrote: |
| I know you can save much more money in Korea than in Japan |
How do you know that?
I saved more money each month teaching in Tokyo than teachers in Korea make in a month.
You can save 1.5 to 2 million won a month if you're working hard in Tokyo.
I worked hard in Seoul and make about 2 or 2.3 million won a month compared to the 4 or 5 million won a month I made in Tokyo.
Next to the Middle East, I would say Tokyo is the most lucrative place to teach EFL - Not Taiwan and not Korea.
But then again, if you can save $20,000 a year in Taiwan or Korea that's nothing to scoff at either, is it!
| Quote: |
when it comes to women it doesnt get ANY better than Japan
It is the land of milk and honey... |
Yeah, in all of Asia, Japanese women are the sexiest without a doubt. It's how they dress and behave. I will always be partial to Japanese women. But I've seen some amazing Chinese women also!
| Coffeecup wrote: |
| Koreans -- real. Japanese -- fake, or 'faker' in comparison. |
Then why do we always see so many Koreans running around wanting to be like the Japanese? The Koreans, the younger Koreans specifically, do whatever they can to emulate the Japanese. You go into shops in Myong Dong and hear J-Pop! The young people follow the Japanese fashions. The Koreans, like the Taiwanese, admire the Japanese and want to be like them.
| Coffeecup wrote: |
| Koreans -- down to earth. Jpns -- pretentious. |
What? Don't kid yourself on that. The Koreans aren't just as pretentious? Or the Chinese for that matter?
| Coffeecup wrote: |
| Koreans -- some food good. Jpns -- most of it tastes bitter or vinegary. |
Japanese food is more salt and miso based or shoyu based. I don't care for much of it anyways.
No, you'll never really fit in to either cultures. It doesn't matter if you marry a local and learn the language - you'll still be an outsider. Both countries are similar in that respect. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:32 am Post subject: |
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TECO,
Interesting point about the savings...but if you manage to save 2 million won a month (in equivalence of course) in Tokyo out of a salary of 4-5 million won.
OR
You save 2 million won in Korea out of a salary of 3 million won (which is quite easy to do).
The I would say Korea is a better place to save money based purely on the percentage of your wages you are able to save every month while maintaining a nice lifestyle. |
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duanemyhre
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| rush wrote: |
when it comes to women it doesnt get ANY better than Japan
It is the land of milk and honey ... pure and simple
Itaewon is ok if you like the easy girls |
I know exactly what you mean! It�s like being a kid with unlimited credit in a candy store!
I knew I was in heaven when one of my Japanese girlfriends said that she didn�t care if I had sex with other girls, as long as I loved her.
((This is when my jaw hit the floor!!)) |
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Homer
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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duane,
After you "recovered" your slack jaw did it occur to you that sometimes in life people test their partners with just such statements....hmm..guess not eh mate?
And of course, being the fair minded guy that you are, immediatly after she made this comment you responded with the same offer of it being quite ok if she wanted to have sex with other guys right?
It would be only fair... |
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William Beckerson
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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She probably was anyway.
Player, thy name is Japanese... |
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duanemyhre
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
duane,
After you "recovered" your slack jaw did it occur to you that sometimes in life people test their partners with just such statements....hmm..guess not eh mate?
And of course, being the fair minded guy that you are, immediatly after she made this comment you responded with the same offer of it being quite ok if she wanted to have sex with other guys right?
It would be only fair... |
If you�re skeptical, I understand�but it is obvious that you have never lived in Japan. At least not a social life in Japan. I�m sure you can find many other guys on this board who have had a similar experience as I.
This is just part of the wonderful Japanese experience. Japanese men have, with permission from their wives and girlfriends, cheated on women for hundreds if not thousands of years. I guess its not really cheating. Anyway�
Find some books on Japanese history and culture and you will soon find where this comes from. It was just a serious culture shock for me the first time I experienced it face to face.
And� no I didn�t offer the same thing back. That wouldn�t be the right thing to do in Japanese culture  I Don�t want to go against the grain!
I haven�t arrived yet and I�m a little sorry to hear that this part of Japanese culture doesn�t extend into Korea. And� for the rest of you� don�t jump down my throat for liking this. After all� When in Rome...
And I didn�t cheat on my girlfriend. I just LOVED being told that I could!!! Its that KING OF THE MOUNTAIN FEELING!
Peace! |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
You save 2 million won in Korea out of a salary of 3 million won (which is quite easy to do).
The I would say Korea is a better place to save money based purely on the percentage of your wages you are able to save every month while maintaining a nice lifestyle. |
Homer:
While in Korea, I didn't know anyone making 3 million won a month.
I still don't.
Everyone I worked with was making app. 2 Million to 2.5 Million Won a month.
But if people are making that kind of money in Korea - Great! |
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Homer
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:12 am Post subject: |
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TECO,
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While in Korea, I didn't know anyone making 3 million won a month.
I still don't.
Everyone I worked with was making app. 2 Million to 2.5 Million Won a month. |
Fair enough about the 3 million not that many of us making that kind of money but quite a few more than you might expect.
Even if you are talking 2.5, in Korea you could still manage to save 1.5 out of that which is not possible in Japan. It still remains a better economic opportunity as far as savings go. Of course, there are intagibles. If someone feels more comfortable living in Japan then the extra saving potential in Korea becomes a moot point. It all boils down to preferences.
The salaries in Japan are higher but the cost of living is also much steeper. also, and unless I am mistaken, the higher wage does not include rent which comes out of the teachers pocket, nor airfare (or at least its not as common) which also represents over a 1000 dollars. these things add up.
Duane,
| Quote: |
| If you�re skeptical, I understand�but it is obvious that you have never lived in Japan. |
I have never lived in Japan but my brother has been in Tokyo for 6 years working as a translator for Canon. I visited him many times and also have a couple of friends from university teaching in Japan (Osaka and Matsue).
The cheating you mentionned might happen but it does not mean the women don't do it either and your hiding behind cultural correctness if laughable 
Also, its not because she says its ok that it is ok. Sometimes people say things like that while not really meaning and not liking at all the possibily that their partners will act on it.
I have read a "few" books on japanese history and culture and even took a few courses on Japan during my undergrad. I'm no expert but you are simplifying things here.
At least you didn't cheat... |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| It still remains a better economic opportunity as far as savings go. |
Homer and the rest of the peeps slaving away in South Korean hogwans - The only place more lucrative than Tokyo, Japan is the Middle East.
Me and my co-workers in Seoul made about 2 Million Won a month.
Many EFL teachers working in Tokyo send home 2 Million Won a month.
That's the truth.
Tokyo is the most lucrative EFL location in Asia, if not the World.
Not Korea.
Not Taiwan. |
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duanemyhre
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Duane,
| Quote: |
| If you�re skeptical, I understand�but it is obvious that you have never lived in Japan. |
The cheating you mentionned might happen but it does not mean the women don't do it either and your hiding behind cultural correctness if laughable
Also, its not because she says its ok that it is ok. Sometimes people say things like that while not really meaning and not liking at all the possibily that their partners will act on it.
I have read a "few" books on japanese history and culture and even took a few courses on Japan during my undergrad. I'm no expert but you are simplifying things here.
At least you didn't cheat... |
I have lived in Japan for three years. One year in the country side and two years in the burbs. I also have one of my undergraduate degrees in Japanese.
Ok� If you know a little about Japanese culture, then I�m sure you know that unless I write you a book on this post, I will have to edit a lot out. Yes, I�m simplifying things, but I�ve given the just of it. I do know that it is common, at present day, for a Japanese girl to cheat on her boyfriend. However, I have actually never had this happen to me or any other foreign guy I knew dating a Japanese girl. I don�t know why and Its is possible that I just didn�t know it was happening, but I�m sure that It was extremely unlikely. And�your thorough study of Japanese culture and history should have led to some insight for why girls didn�t cheat on their husbands. In the past, a woman would likely be thrown, permanently into the street like garbage, or be legally killed by her husbands. As you know� Japanese modern culture is deeply connected to traditional culture; however, this connection is not as strong with young people living in Tokyo or Osaka.
Granted hiding behind cultural correctness if laughable� Yea probably, but why not. Its always a good excuse in Japan (as you should know, right!) The Japanese do it everyday.
And�If you read a little further down my last post, you will notice that I said that I never cheated on my girlfriend, I just like being told I can cheat.
And� yes, I�m sure the girl doesn�t want me to cheat. That is obvious from the look on her face when she says it. But, it does mean that she would rather have me cheat on her than leave her for another girl.
One more things you might want to know. Most young people move to Tokyo or Osaka for a few years while they are young and pursue a more modern lifestyle, but almost all end up back where they grew up after while and re-conforming to the more traditional ways.
If you want to know anything else, just let me know.
But� as I said, Japan is a great place!
I�m also eager to see what Korea has to offer. I�m entering a region where I know little or nothing about the culture. |
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duanemyhre
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| TECO wrote: |
| Homer wrote: |
| It still remains a better economic opportunity as far as savings go. |
Homer and the rest of the peeps slaving away in South Korean hogwans - The only place more lucrative than Tokyo, Japan is the Middle East.
Me and my co-workers in Seoul made about 2 Million Won a month.
Many EFL teachers working in Tokyo send home 2 Million Won a month.
That's the truth.
Tokyo is the most lucrative EFL location in Asia, if not the World.
Not Korea.
Not Taiwan. |
This really depends on the person and I haven�t lived in Korea yet but, Japan is a very expensive place to live. Most EFL teachers make 250,000 � 295,000 yen per month. For most people, after your living expenses you are lucky to have 50,000 yen left over. That, in my opinion, is for a very simple lifestyle. I made 350,000 and I was lucky to have 30,000 � 50,000 saved at the end of the month, but I liked to go out with my Japanese friends a lot. I was at the izakaya almost four days a week. Some people are unbelievably frugal and can save more, but it is difficult. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:35 am Post subject: |
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TECo, you miss the point mate,
| Quote: |
Homer and the rest of the peeps slaving away in South Korean hogwans - The only place more lucrative than Tokyo, Japan is the Middle East.
Me and my co-workers in Seoul made about 2 Million Won a month.
Many EFL teachers working in Tokyo send home 2 Million Won a month.
That's the truth.
Tokyo is the most lucrative EFL location in Asia, if not the World.
Not Korea.
Not Taiwan. |
I work in Busan, South Korea.
I pay no rent, have 2 months off a year and save about 3 million won a month. Then again i am married.
Ok to be fair, before marriage I was making about 3 million a month and saving 2.
The question about the Tokyo of gold TECO is how much do you have to earn to be able to send 2 million won home per month?
Duane,
I do not dispute your knowledge of Japan mate, not at all.
And I did read the lower part of your post as my responsed showed, it seemd you quite reading my post before it ended... 
Most of what you said about Japan I knew or had read or heard about.
I am quite aware that cheating is still mostly a man's game in Japan, and incidently in Korea.
I suppose for some being told they "could" cheat would be nice. We differ on that point but no problem, it takes all kinds to make a world.
In the end, i do hope your "eagerness" to come to Korea is not solely based on the potential "babes" you might "bag". If so, then again we differ.. |
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