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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Novernae wrote: |
| If you want to continue this, please do so through PMs. |
Thanks, I'll pass tho'. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| superacidjax wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| "If everyone acted the way I did, would the world be a better place?" |
That would be a very arrogant attitude to have. Not to mention sanctimonious. It implies that "your" way is the solution to all the world's ills. I don't pretend to have that kind of knowledge.
I know that if everyone acted like me, the world would be full of drunk DJs who don't like the sunlight. |
It's not a solution, it's just a question. What would be the larger consequences of my actions? It challenges me not to cut corners, take advantage, and not expect other people to be the answer to the world's problems. |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Novernae wrote: |
| Can you read? Everything you just jumped on me for I already said. My whole criticism was based on the idea that people give without actually doing anything. So I didn't give the example of the mighty idea of giving a homeless person a roll of kimbab, but don't discount everything I've said because of that. I suggested a soup kitchen because it is tangible. I also know in my community the soup kitchen does a lot more good than any donation agency ever will. You got out of it because someone actually DID something. |
I agree with you, especially regarding "Tangible" things such as soup kitchens. I was more attacking the idea that many people seem to have that by starting some "group" that they will actually solve problems. Many people (I'm not even remotely suggesting you) prefer to sit around and have meetings and raise money and make cool internet sites, when very few people actually are willing to get their hands dirty.
It's very much like the John Kerrys of the world sitting in their plush offices in the giant homes with tall gates telling people that "he understands the plight of the poor or middle classes." Ted Kennedy is particularly bad about this. This populism, or idea that they know what best for us is disgusting. I see many politicians, especially Demoncrats claim to help the poor or hungry when in fact, they are just pandering for the bleeding heart vote. When a politician says that "they understand," I have to scoff. The only people that could understand are the ones that have been there, or as in your case, the ones willing to get their hands dirty and do something beyond just throwing money from the palace tower towards the huddled masses starving at their doorstep. I am no great fan of former President Bill Clinton, but at least when he talked about the plight of the poor, or single parent homes, he was speaking from some experience. I can respect that, because he lived in less than ideal surroundings at some point in his life.
I can't stand those self-righteous people that feel that they are doing good by starting some group whose sole aim is to serve as a vanity organization to make them feel better about themselves.
If my post was misinterpreted, I apologize. I was critisizing the organizations that are just about throwing money, but not about getting dirty.
Thanks for your altruism. I wish more people would be willing to stand in the cold and give people food rather than recline in their chairs and lament how "people need to give more money."
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SAJ |
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Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your reply, and I apologize for misinterpreting your post. Your post is a rare bit of well thought-out clarity here. It says a lot that, although we come from different parts of the political spectrum (I think...), we can agree on most of this.
Cheers. |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jlb wrote: |
I agree with everything you just said. However, for most people, giving some money is a good first step to at least get people thinking about the issues. A lot of my friends and family aren't really at the place where they can work for structural change or even realize what the issues are. By doing this challenge, I am hoping that people will actually start thinking about the rest of the world outside their comfy first world existence. Perhaps for one or two people, it may lead to more down the road. I have no illusion that donating $100 of my money each month is really going to do a lot...but by sponsoring a child or two at least I'm making a difference in a couple kids lives. It's better than nothing. |
Better than nothing? Perhaps you ought to consider it from the point of view of the children who benifit from your kindness? To them it goes far beyond the scope of better than nothing. To them your contribution is the only thing for the most part that allows them a shot at an education. Certainly they don't have to much in the way of a chance to grow and prosper from their own government and community.
I do urge caution though. Alot of these charitable Orgs have dodgy managements and other administrative fees that can really eat into that .89 cents a day or whatever it is you donate. By the time it reaches the kid its almost as if the kid owns the Charitable organization money. |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| superacidjax wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| "If everyone acted the way I did, would the world be a better place?" |
That would be a very arrogant attitude to have. Not to mention sanctimonious. It implies that "your" way is the solution to all the world's ills. I don't pretend to have that kind of knowledge.
I know that if everyone acted like me, the world would be full of drunk DJs who don't like the sunlight. |
It's not a solution, it's just a question. What would be the larger consequences of my actions? It challenges me not to cut corners, take advantage, and not expect other people to be the answer to the world's problems. |
If everyone acted the way I did the world would be an asteriod belt by now. The better question would be, "Would the world be a better place if everyone avoided acting like me?" |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Dan The Chainsawman wrote: |
| jlb wrote: |
I agree with everything you just said. However, for most people, giving some money is a good first step to at least get people thinking about the issues. A lot of my friends and family aren't really at the place where they can work for structural change or even realize what the issues are. By doing this challenge, I am hoping that people will actually start thinking about the rest of the world outside their comfy first world existence. Perhaps for one or two people, it may lead to more down the road. I have no illusion that donating $100 of my money each month is really going to do a lot...but by sponsoring a child or two at least I'm making a difference in a couple kids lives. It's better than nothing. |
Better than nothing? Perhaps you ought to consider it from the point of view of the children who benifit from your kindness? To them it goes far beyond the scope of better than nothing. To them your contribution is the only thing for the most part that allows them a shot at an education. Certainly they don't have to much in the way of a chance to grow and prosper from their own government and community.
I do urge caution though. Alot of these charitable Orgs have dodgy managements and other administrative fees that can really eat into that .89 cents a day or whatever it is you donate. By the time it reaches the kid its almost as if the kid owns the Charitable organization money. |
Hmmm...I think you may have misunderstood the context of my message. It was in response to someone who said that giving money is basically useless and Westerners only do it to feel better about themselves and that structural change is what really matters. I think money can be part of the solution and is often the only thing that a lot of people in the West can actually do for the 2/3's world. |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Well who ever said giving money to help others can suck on a chainsaw. Mind you don't give it away foolishly. Look into the organization carefully first. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: |
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From a friend's blog:
http://noughsaid.blogs.com/
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| My brief exposure to the world of humanitarian aid has made me a cynic, not sure of who I'm actually helping, and even more unsure of whether we're doing it right if we are indeed genuinely trying to serve our beneficiaries. Both the Sudan and this assignment in Aceh has so far felt more like I'm "saving development programs one office at a time". Having been trained (literally arse kicked) by the corporate world, I miss the professionalism, efficiency and accountability (to name a few essentials missing from my (I'll repeat) brief, and narrow experience in the running of an international NGO). |
Take it as you wish. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Oh please...give me a break!
SAJ for someone who doesn't like self-righteous people you seem to have quite a line in it yourself.
I can see how when you were homeless in France the fact that the whole nation didn't turn out to welcome you into their homes' with open arms (with the exception of one miserable sod) could make you all bitter and twisted but...
I don't suppose it ever occured to you and Novernae that there are people who as well as giving money are prepared to put the time in to voluntary work as well.
There might even be people who give the time and money and don't feel the need to hector other people about what they are or are not doing for charity.
Like the world's worst problem really is too many people giving too much money to poorer people.
Look.....if anyone has any concrete details or hard facts about about dodgy charities that should be avoided feel free to post them here.
Otherwise feel free to STFU! |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Grimalkin wrote: |
Like the world's worst problem really is too many people giving too much money to poorer people.
Look.....if anyone has any concrete details or hard facts about about dodgy charities that should be avoided feel free to post them here.
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I'd really be curious also. There are the few naysayers who are saying giving money to charity is bad...but does it really do more harm than good? Facts please! |
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