Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Bramble]

Since I'm such a nice person, and I have some time to kill, I did a Google search for "vegans" and "breastfeeding." Look what came up:

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/people/lifestyle/families/parenting/vegan_children/breastfeeding.php

Surprise surprise! Vegans believe in breastfeeding! How about that?

Hey, look what else I found out about vegan diets for children (a doctor wrote it):

[superacidjax]

[superacidjax]

[Sister Ray]

[superacidjax]

[Bramble]

[Rteacher]

Remember, "Bramble", that I've added your name to my prestigious list of "Great Vegetarian..." thinkers and celebrities.

Of course, if I don't care for views expressed in your posts, I retain the option of removing your name from said list :

Jesus, Buddha, John the Baptist, Confucious, "Rteacher", Gandhi, Plato, Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Issac Newton, Immanuel Kant, Voltaire, Albert Schweitzer, Socrates, Diogenes, Heroditus, Hesiod, George Bernard Shaw, Leo Tolstoy, Franz Kafka, William Shakespeare (with some lapses...) H.G. Wells, Mary and Percy Shelly, Mark Twain, Charlotte Bronte, Hans Christian Anderson, Louisa May Alcott, Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Will and Ariel Durant, John Robbins, Peter Ha, Harriot Beecher Stowe, Jeremy Rifkin, Alice Walker, Stephen Clark, Berke Breathed, Allen Ginsberg, Susan B. Anthony, Chelsea Clinton, Dennis Kucinich, Caeser Chavez, Clara Barton (founder of Red Cross) Bill Ford (CEO), Steve Jobs, Michael Eisner, Robert Kennedy Jr., Dr. Benjamin Spock, "Red dog", Jane Goodall, Henry Heimlich (famous maneuverer) Adam Smith, Charles Darwin, Hitler, Russell Crowe, George Harrison, Paul McCartney, John and Julian Lennon, Ringo Star, John Cleese, Willem Dafoe, Cameron Diaz, David Duchovny, Michael J. Fox, Ed Asner, Dustin Hoffman, Richard Gere, Sir John Gielgud, Anthony Hopkins, Woody Harrelson, Toby Maguire, Sir Ian Mckellen, Ashley Judd, Hayley Mills, Demi Moore, Pamela Anderson, Paul Newman, Brad Pitt, Kim Basinger, Dennis Weaver, Alicia Silverstone, Kate Winslet, Reese Witherspoon, Mary Tyler Moore, Bob Barker, Milton Berle, Kevin Eubanks, Fred (Mr.)Rogers, Lisa Kudrow, Lisa Bonet, "Lisa Simpson", Danny DaVito, William Shatner, Peter Max, Joan Baez, John Cage, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Carlos Santana, Bruce Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Grace Slick, Tina Turner, "The Smiths" Ray and Dav Davies (Kinks), Mick Jaggar, Alanis Morisette, Steve Perry (Journey), Eric Johnson, "Meatloaf", Whitney Houston, Chrissie Hynde (Pretenders), "Boston", Jeff Beck, Bryan Adams, Fiona Apple, "B-52's", Michael Bolton, Anne Lennox, Boy George, Bono, Kate Bush, Kurt Cobain, Peter Gabriel, India Arie, Joan Jet, Nelly, Pink, K.D. Laing, Bif Naked, "Rage Against the Machine", Joey Ramone, Stevie Nicks, Natalie Merchant, Nick Rhode (Duran Duran), Justin Timberlake, Shania Twain, Eddie Vedder, Vanessa Williams, Bob Weir, Ron Welty, Dwight Yoakum, a Weird Al Yancovic, "Bramble" , Chris Martin (Coldplay), Carrie Underwood (American Idol) - and Prince...

[Omkara]

I was a meat and potatoes guy. Now I'm a vegetarian. Feel healthier, clearer, more at peace.

Vegetarians as a group tend to be an intelligent bunch. They actually think about their diet and its many implications. Granted, there are fanatics. But, for the rest, they at least understand that there is a necessary connection between cause and effect. You cannot separate one from the other. In addition, since the two are inseparable, all things are connected. Therefore, when we vegetarians ask what is best for ourselves, the question is quite different than that same question as asked by someone with an ego-centric conception of being.

So, if we want to look at it from the point of an individual's ego, the vegetarian diet is superior to most other diets. Granted, the consumption of fish can be beneficial. However, if the vegetarian's diet is well balanced, there is no need for fish unless the fish can supply something that individual demonstrably needs. But as for beef, pork, etc., the regular consumption of these products lead to many diseases. A great many of our preventable diseases come from the consumption of animal products.

But as for the "Portland, Oregon" type, I'd sooner keep company with that kind who is superfluously compassionate than with unreflective, aggressive apes, who do not understand that there is necessary connection between our behavior and the state of the world.

Now, I understand why some people would want to keep meat in their diet. But the problem is that most people consume meat unreflectively and in quantities which harm both the body and the environment, not to mention the unnecessary suffering caused by the unnecessary consumption of meat. If, however, a person were to effectively judge that some meat were necessary in their diet, it would certainly be in far smaller quantities than is the common amount consummed by common, unreflective, and perhaps unintelligent people.

It is the greatest spiritual error to assume that our food comes from the grocery store. But if the word "spiritual" smacks of superstition, then we can simply work from a model of cause and effect and have a dicussion from there. The only argument I've ever seen really put up against this cause and effect model is one which makes an appeal to hairy genitals.

[Rteacher]

Here's some further support for the idea that a vegetarian diet can provide adequate nutrition:

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Diets high in alpha-linolenic acid may promote strong bones, the results of a small study suggest, and contrary to what many people believe, you don't need to eat fish or take fish oil tablets to raise levels of this omega-3 fatty acid.

Omega-3 fatty acids are a type of polyunsaturated fatty acid, or PUFA. Most guidelines recommend consuming diets high in PUFAs and low in saturated fats.

"Our findings suggest that by eating plant sources of alpha-linolenic acid, such as walnuts and flaxseed oil, you can strengthen bones," senior author Dr. Rebecca L. Corwin, from The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, told Reuters Health. "This is good news for people who don't like fish."

The new findings, which appear in the Nutrition Journal, are based on a study of 23 subjects who consumed one of three diets, provided by the researchers, over 6-week periods. The diets included an average American diet, which was low in PUFAs; a diet high in alpha-linolenic acid; and a diet high in linoleic acid, a PUFA of the omega-6 group.

Compared with the average American diet, the alpha-linolenic diet, and to a lesser extent the linoleic diet, produced changes suggesting a reduction in bone breakdown, which would be expected to promote stronger bones. However, these diets did not seem to increase the formation of new bone.

"The take-home message is that eating plant sources of omega-3 fatty acids" seems to improve bone health, Corwin noted. "Although linoleic acid also had a beneficial effect, I would be reluctant to recommend increasing the intake, since some research has linked the omega-6 fatty acids with inflammatory effects."
SOURCE: Nutrition Journal, January 16, 2007
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070223/hl_nm/fish_haters_dc_1;_ylt=Ar3uzWrp2e_HH2QIAVVeWDwR.3QA

[Bramble]

I'm taking a vegan DHA supplement these days. Probably a good idea for most people. Omega Zen is the brand name.

[Gatsby]

Whether vegetarianism is healthier, for adults or children, is ultimately an empirical question, and a good one. But it is also simplistic.

Is vegetarianism healthier than a meat based diet, or more to the point, than a typical North American diet?

Is eating vegetarian donuts, lattes, Snickers bars and tater tots healthier than eating cheesburgers and fries or perhaps lean steak and fish? Is a vegetarian pizza healthier than a pepperoni pizza? Or how about nice vegetarian fast food french fries or deep fried apple pie cooked in the same oil with the chicken fingers?

Just because you are not eating meat does not mean you are eating healthy.

Some people have great success with a natural foods vegetarian diet, even children, and can be extremely healthy.

But for others, it can be a disaster. This is in part due to genetic variations in the way we handle foods. Some people cannot digest wheat or other glutens (including rye and oats) because of celiac disease, found in about 1 in 133 Americans. Many others have problems with wheat because of an acquired sensitivity resulting from being exposed to wheat three times a day for virtually their entire life. Wheat is the most common form of acquired food allergy. Soy, eggs and milk are also common.

Soy is far more dangerous than people realize. It has gotten a rep as a wonder health food. Not so. In the 60s it wasn't even fed to cows. The agrifood industry was looking for ways of disposing of the remains from producing soy bean oil, and we got soy protein products. (Side note: soy in pet food may not be good for your cat or dog, and may disrupt the thyroid gland.)

Eat soy every day and it may depress your thyroid hormone production. Eat raw spinach, raw cabbage, or perhaps even raw broccoli every day and it also will suppress thyroid production. Thyroid is the master hormone regulating your metabolism. One result of decreased thyroid production is weight gain, resulting from a generally slowed down metabolism.

And you thought that salad bar was healthy?

How about some tomatoes and bell peppers on your salad? If you are one of about 12 percent of the North American population with a sensitivity to the nightshade family of foods, you could be in trouble. Those tomatoes and peppers could be triggering arthritic symptoms, fatigue and insomnia. And the fresher the veggies, the more of the chemical solanine causing the problems is found in these items. This chemical can also be found in potatoes, eggplants and tobacco, according to the book "Arthritis," by Norman F. Childers. Also see http://www.noarthritis.com.

Wonder if you are sensitive? Eliminate nightshades for a couple of weeks. Then eat a raw tomato, or have a fresh baked potato twice a day for two days. Or eat a vegetarian pizza with lots of nice green peppers and sun dried tomatoes. Or some Mexican food with lots of hot sauce. See if you feel tired, have difficulty concentrating, or wake up in the middle of the night feeling like you have the flu. Or perhaps you will wake up in the morning feeling like your fingers were pulled out of their sockets. Maybe your hip will be bothering you and you will have trouble walking -- if you had a prior joint injury.

Another interesting way to gauge the effects of food is to practice meditation. If you have a sensitivity to a food group, such as nightshades or wheat, you can sometimes observe the effects, which often consist of fatigue, achiness, difficulty holding the mind focused and steady, anxiety and even undirected anger, as well as a more rapid and intense pulse. The physical mechanism seems to involve inflammation-related chemicals such as cytokines produced by the immune system, much like a flu-like response to infection. Clean up your diet and it is much easier to quiet the mind and emotions and make progress in meditation. But conversely, the ability to achieve a quiet mind easily is also a sign your diet is not stressing your immune system.

If you have an acquired food IgE food allergy to wheat, you could have suppressed digestion as a result, according to Dr. James Braly. In other words, your body produces less stomach acid and digestive enzymes in response to the wheat proteins, which your immune system has identified as a hostile invader. The result is that more carbohydrates pass into your lower digestive tract undigested, feeding bad bacteria and fungi, particularly candida.

This can lead to a systemic candida infection, even in your upper digestive tract and ears, according to Dr. C.O. Truss, author of The Missing Diagnosis, the research pioneer in the field. The more vegetarian carbs and sugar your take in, the more you feed the candida, and the worse you feel. The dedicated vegetarian might take this as a sign from God that they are a sinful person, or something, and they must continue on their ascetic diet to make spiritual sacrifices and be redeemed. Don't laugh; I have known vegetarians who just can't accept that their diet, itself, could be the problem.

As for milk, some people can handle it better than others. But there are those who say it was a lot healthier before they started heat pasteurizing it. Of course, it also killed people before they pasteurized it. The real problem with milk seems to be homogenization. The culprit is xanthane oxidase, an enzyme found in milk that the body ordinarily breaks down and digests.

Homogenization consists of shaking milk vigorously to break up the fat globules and distribute them throughout the milk, instead of having them float to the top as cream (what a horrible thought!). The homogenization also breaks up the xanthane oxidase into little pieces, which, instead of getting digested, enter the blood stream intact, ripping microscopic tears in your arteries, which are then covered with scar tissue, and which then are covered by plaque. The end result is arteriosclerosis.

The following excerpt is from the journal Atherosclerosis (1989;77:251-6): "Homogenized cow's milk transforms healthy butterfat into microscopic spheres of fat containing xanthine oxidase (XO) which is one of the most powerful digestive enzymes there is. The spheres are small enough to pass intact right through the stomach and intestines walls without first being digested. Thus this extremely powerful protein knife, XO, floats throughout the body in the blood and lymph systems. When the XO breaks free from its fat envelope, it attacks the inner wall of whatever vessel it is in. This creates a wound. The wound triggers the arrival of patching plaster to seal off that wound. The patching plaster is cholesterol. Hardening of the arteries, heart disease, chest pain, heart attack is the result.

An epidemiological study done in the 1970s showed that levels of arteriosclerosis correspond to national levels of consumption of homogenized milk, not of whole milk, cream or dairy products as a whole. Hence the so called French Paradox, which the press still anguishes over. The French enjoy lots of milk and cheese, but have low levels of heart disease.

As a side note, other studies have found that increased consumption of milk does little to reduce the risk of osteoporosis. It is not such a good source of digestible calcium. I have heard of other claims that the West's high consumption of meat, as well as soda (particularly colas) containing phosphorous increase the body's excretion of calcium, and are a bigger cause of bone loss.

Now let's say you want to eat vegetarian, but you also need to eliminate nightshades, wheat and other grains with glutens. And maybe you want to eliminate milk, too. What does that leave you to eat? Not a whole lot. Try finding foods from the remaining list in a grocery store, or in a restaurant while traveling. Try finding meals on a vegetarian restaurant menu without tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, eggplant, wheat or soy. So it is wrong for people to coerce others into eating vegetarian, including children, or force themselves to follow it if they don't feel healthy and happy.

And it is correct that infants need high levels of fat in their diet to grow brain cells. A low fat vegetarian diet is fine for adults, but disastrous for infants.

There have been remarkable reports of people recovering from cancer and other serious ailments on a vegetarian or macrobiotic diet. I find them credible. Dr. Max Gerson's approach is one example. I interviewed his daughter, who grew up on a vegetarian diet and was by then in her 80s and extremely healthy. But they don't work for everybody. I think one reason is because some people have sensitivities to specific vegetarian foods, such as the tomatoes or wheat, etc.

If a macrobiotic or vegetarian diet were combined with awareness of one's own food sensitivities and a more empirical knowledge of the health effects of food, I think it would have a better chance of producing improved health. At the same time, I doubt that having an occasional small amount of animal product would be a disaster, and could even be healthy.

Indeed, in my personal experience, sometimes a nice steak or hamburger is the answer to a vegetarian's problems. If you are on a vegetarian diet that is unbalanced in terms of yin and yang, such as with lots of potatoes and tomatoes, and then add in a daily dose of ginseng, you could wind up with a nice stuffy head that can last for months. It resembles a head cold, but isn't. This happened to me. A friend told me to go eat a hamburger, which I did. It cleared up.

Ironically, I had a college professor who complained in class of having a cold for about a month. Suspicious, I finally went up to him after class and asked him if he was taking ginseng root. He said yes, he would be over his cold any day now, thanks to the ginseng! I suggested he stop taking the ginseng and eat a hamburger, and he was all better by the next class. He was from South Korea.

[gweilo_farang]

[Bramble]

[Bramble]

[Dawn]

As a pregnant vegetarian woman who's been e-mailed links to that *($)#($ fish article three times now, I'd like to point out that it's not the dead marine life that's critical to brain development. It's the Omega-3 fatty acids in the dead marine life.

I personally prefer to get my Omega-3's from organic flaxseed, organic flaxseed oil, and organic walnuts -- natural foods that don't pose a danger of mercury poisoning to our unborn child and that don't subject him/her to all manner of water pollutants.

As to the "Why can't people just be normal?" remark, let's think for a minute about where "normal" is leading us. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, 4 to 12 percent of children suffer from ADHD. (One U.S. government study puts the number at a whopping 16.1 percent.) Autism rates are sky-rocketing, with disorders now believed to affect as many as one out of every 150 children. Both of these have been linked at least in part to food chemicals. Now, there's no way for us to protect our child from every potential risk factor, but I can darned sure guarantee that it's not being subjected to antibiotic and growth hormone laden meats, pesticide-ridden vegetables, genetically modified "frankenfoods," and all manner of packaged, processed, preservative-filled crap while its little body is in the most critical stages of development. ... And I make no apologies to anyone for doing so.