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Circumcision helps prevent HIV infection, studies confirm
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thebum

Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Location: North Korea

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:48 am Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

jinju wrote:

nautilus wrote:

Quote:

People pushing this "evidence" obviously have an agenda. *beep* them.

-don't you think thats a bit of an overreaction? The evidence of this report clearly suggests circumcision has a beneficial effect.

No, I dont. There is a clear pro-circumsition agenda here, stemmng from doctors wanting to push as much intervention on people aspossible. Again, I simply dont take this study seriously.

What's your evidence?

a lot of money is made by doing circumcisions each year. i'd say that's an agenda. some people are circumcised without even asking the parents. why would you mutilate a newborn's genitals in the first place? have you ever thought that the foreskin might be there for a reason? what about the pain babies feel? some children remember their infant circumcisions. many babies also die from complications of their circumcisions.

a few links:

http://www.noharmm.org/

http://www.cirp.org/

http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/

http://www.icgi.org/

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

jinju wrote:

nautilus wrote:

Quote:

People pushing this "evidence" obviously have an agenda. *beep* them.

-don't you think thats a bit of an overreaction? The evidence of this report clearly suggests circumcision has a beneficial effect.

No, I dont. There is a clear pro-circumsition agenda here, stemmng from doctors wanting to push as much intervention on people aspossible. Again, I simply dont take this study seriously.

What's your evidence?

Whats THEIRS?

Doctors have a god complex. They push unnecessary procedures on their victims, er, patients. You cant tell me there isnt a definite pro-circumsition bias in the medical world....doctors cant seem to leave well enough alone.

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject:

I've heard it said that many women find the altered version more aesthetically pleasing. I would like to think so, as I have also suffered phallic mutilation as a newborn. Ladies? Last edited by caniff on Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject:

jinju wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

jinju wrote:

nautilus wrote:

Quote:

People pushing this "evidence" obviously have an agenda. *beep* them.

-don't you think thats a bit of an overreaction? The evidence of this report clearly suggests circumcision has a beneficial effect.

No, I dont. There is a clear pro-circumsition agenda here, stemmng from doctors wanting to push as much intervention on people aspossible. Again, I simply dont take this study seriously.

What's your evidence?

You made a claim. What's your evidence?

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject:

thebum wrote:

a lot of money is made by doing circumcisions each year. i'd say that's an agenda.

So? Every service makes someone money. We all have an agenda to do the job we're trained for. That's hardly evidence a peer reviewed medical study is so much propaganda.

Quote:

some people are circumcised without even asking the parents

Mistakes I guess happen. Is there some kind of conspriacy?

Quote:

why would you mutilate a newborn's genitals in the first place?

Why would you have your daughter's ears mutilated for fashion sake and per her at risk of dying of infection? Why would you let a newborn die because your religion doesn't believe in blood transfusions? Religion totally sucks in my opinion but so far we still allow parents the right to choose and adhere to their faiths.

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

Why would you have your daughter's ears mutilated for fashion sake and per her at risk of dying of infection?

This is stupid. How many people force their daughters to have ears pierced? Usually the girls ask for it themselves and parents usually dont allow it until a certain age. Now, WHO in their right mind asks for a circumsition? It is always forced on babies. And anyway, the two arent even comparable. Want to comoare the *beep* to an ear? It would be like chopping off the earlobe altogether.

Quote:

Why would you let a newborn die because your religion doesn't believe in blood transfusions?

Who is going to die from not getting a circumsition? ive never read a case where a baby died because the parents left the foreskin intact. Its usualy the other way around, kids die because of circumsition.

Quote:

Religion totally sucks in my opinion but so far we still allow parents the right to choose and adhere to their faiths

THEIR faithes. Let the parents lob off their own bodyparts. Newborns, as far as I can tell, dont have the mental faculties to have faith in anything.

Quote:

So? Every service makes someone money. We all have an agenda to do the job we're trained for. That's hardly evidence a peer reviewed medical study is so much propaganda.

Its just a bunch of hacks looking for new ways to make money.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject:

jinju wrote:

Its just a bunch of hacks looking for new ways to make money.

Based on what evidence?

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

jinju wrote:

Its just a bunch of hacks looking for new ways to make money.

Based on what evidence?

Based on their suspicious little study and the conclusions they are making. Lots of foreskin to chop off in africa, lots of money to be made. How this profession has fallen.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject:

jinju wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

jinju wrote:

Its just a bunch of hacks looking for new ways to make money.

Based on what evidence?

Based on their suspicious little study and the conclusions they are making. Lots of foreskin to chop off in africa, lots of money to be made. How this profession has fallen.

So, based on nothing but your personal opinion? Good thing you're being scientific about it.

I'm not sure how some North American doctors are going to richly profit from such a procedure.

Let me direct you to who funded the study:

Funding: The authors received no funding specifically for this study. The funders (see acknowledgements) had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.

Now if it was Cut Man Magazine, okay, sure, posit your little interventionist doctor conspiracy. But I really don't see how this study is about profit.

Phase One: Circumcision.
Phase Two: ????
Phase Three: Profit.

We've got scientists who are doing some basic, initial research. There's a correlation. That's an important first step in forming a hypothesis. Given there appears to be an effect, what is the mechanism?

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:57 am Post subject:

circumsition is as bad as rape: both include violent, animalistic assaults on the private parts of defenseless people

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:56 am Post subject:

jinju wrote:

circumsition is as bad as rape: both include violent, animalistic assaults on the private parts of defenseless people

If you feel that way, then I encourage you not to have any sons endure the procedure. But others don't feel that way, many for religious reasons. Go convince the Jews and many Christians that they should not take their bible literally. Actually come over to the evolution debate and convince Junior not to take his old testament literally.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:23 am Post subject:

the bum wrote:

many babies also die from complications of their circumcisions.

Rubbish... I find no evidence, let alone mention, in your links that baby boys die in masses after the removal of a piece of skin. Laughing

jinju wrote:

Doctors have a god complex. They push unnecessary procedures on their victims, er, patients. You cant tell me there isnt a definite pro-circumsition bias in the medical world....doctors cant seem to leave well enough alone.

Actually when I had it done as a child, my parents tell me that most doctors refused to do it and it was hard to find one that would. Apparently it was also a quick and very cheap procedure.

belzoond

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Location: united states

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

Parents don't tattoo their children or have their children's ears pierced? Ever? Parents do a lot of things to children and babies without the baby's consent. It's not a crime or a violation of a child's free will. Many states happily let parents let their child die, although a simple blood transfusion would save their lives. Do the parents ask the child if he/she wants to be part of the religion?

We allow parents to exercise judgments over their child within the law. A spanking parents legally deliver to some is just as bad as foreskin removal. Oh well.

Pure sophistry. Good grief, why are you trying to defend something like this. Culture is relative, human rights are not. Cutting a baby's privates is wrong.

mindmetoo wrote:

That's the only Bulls *clap* hit episode I couldn't watch. Certainly it's medically unnecessary in a hygiene oriented culture. And certainly x number of babies die from complications every year. And you can argue you're giving the baby no choice. But then a lot of parents get their children's ears pieced these days and I'm certain as many children die from infections.

Parents rarely view the actual operation, let alone a televised show about it.
I would like to suggest that if it's too much for you to watch, then it's too much for a baby to go through.

Last edited by belzoond on Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject:

The bulls**t episode previously mentioned, suggested that the reason it was done was to stop kids from pulling at their knobs. It was the product of a fear of sex held by religious people. Typical. It is barbaric and without meaningful benefit. I understand that it decreases the chances of developing HIV, but so does not screwing a lady/dude in the arse without a glove. I'm cut. I have a scar, a slight discoloration, where my precious skin used to be. How horrible. Someone took a knife to my cack and cut some of it off. How would we explain this practice to future generations?

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:29 am Post subject:

belzoond wrote:

Cutting a baby's privates is wrong.

Sure. That's why you should not do it and I'm glad there are no laws forcing us to do it. Now convince the Jews and many Christians to stop it as well. While we're at it, let's convince them to stop barbaric things like exorcism or refusing their kids medical procedures that will save their life.

Now, if you ask me, if I had to spend my limited time on a threat religion poses to the health of a child, I'll concentrate on getting parents to stop exorcisms, beating them in the name of their god, and denying them blood transfusions. Of the horrors Christians, Jews, and Muslims propagate, circumcision is low low down on my list. Thanks all the same. Although if it has a demonstrated health benefit, then more power to the act.

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