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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| To preempt, Bush style!, any attacks. This has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with culture. As in, some cultures are on the whole better and less barbaric than others. I offer the above as evidence. |
I suggest the above is only evidence of your once again demonization of Muslims with blanket ignorance and statements. If it has anything to do with culture, it has to do with the lack of opportunity, the poverty and idleness of the youth -- the failure of said cultures to properly address the issue of immigrants and properly help them bridge the immigration hurdle.
I think that if you took statistics of another sort, say, instances of rape in the lower income brackets and correlated this to the percentage of ethnic community -- you'd get an indication that the problem isn't Muslim but rather, inner city poor.....
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| By the by, in their religion, infidel women are essentially whores. Why are you all surprised when the express this belief? Why deny? |
Once again I ask? Who made you imam? Also do you speak French? I do and have lived in Marseille many years. Your suggestions about Marseille I find incredulous and don't think you've probably even set as much as a foot into Noailles.
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| We have values, and they better be prepared to adopt them or go elsewhere. And I think most immigrants (and I not against the idea of immigration) would be happy to assimilate to Western culture. But, we must insist that they do. Stop all this *beep* about the beauty of such and such (racist, sexist) culture. Our lies help nobody. |
You are right . We value obeying the law. We value equality before the law. We value equality and respect of the individual, whatever the culture, religion, race, creed. This is what we value, not what you seem to think.......get over it , your values are hate and are wrong.
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| It has nothing to do with the sweeping conclusions themself. But rather the method of obtaining those conclusions. Bunk data is bunk data. Cry foul all you want, but if you're going to present "statistics" to back up your idoleogy, make sure your statistics mean something. As it stands now, the numbers you present are meaningless. |
I think this sums up your view of rape in Norway and your view of the creeping, Muslims having babies to rule the world conspiracy.
DD |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
I suggest the above is only evidence of your once again demonization of Muslims with blanket ignorance and statements. If it has anything to do with culture, it has to do with the lack of opportunity, the poverty and idleness of the youth -- the failure of said cultures to properly address the issue of immigrants and properly help them bridge the immigration hurdle.
I think that if you took statistics of another sort, say, instances of rape in the lower income brackets and correlated this to the percentage of ethnic community -- you'd get an indication that the problem isn't Muslim but rather, inner city poor.....
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How about the 9/11 "activists". Just poor chaps from Hamburg? Inner city "youths" upset about being immigrants in a nation that gives immigrants free everything? Poor guys. Must be hard.
I get the whole "I'm a man of the world" act that you do. Fine. But your inability to find patterns of behavior, or your unwillingness to honestly characterize them, is stunning. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| But your inability to find patterns of behavior, or your unwillingness to honestly characterize them, is stunning. |
You must admit, those few data points from Oslo are pretty conclusive evidence. After all, they were compiled by the police and reported in a main stream newspaper. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will. |
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Endesu
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Since I am Norwegian, I will just post a bit of follow up information on this subject.
In 2004, 65% of all reported rapists in Oslo were of immigrant background as opposed to 23% of the population being immigrants.
Recently, there have been several serial rape attempts in Oslo making headlines, and the victims have described 3 different men, 2 of African background (presumed Somalian) and one Arab (presumed Iraki).
Conclusive evidence or not, its certainly a worrying trend. 10-15 years ago, rape was not an issue in Oslo.
All my life I have been a supporter of immigration to our country, and I still am. The problem is, like many other European cities, that the immigrants flock together with other of the same background and form ghettos in the big cities. In Oslo, you can go to some parts of the city, and there will be no ethnic Norwegians living there. It has been a problem for a long time, and these days immigrants are way over-represented in the crime statistics. I feel like a racist when saying this, but certain nationalities and background just dont fit in in liberal societies like we have in Northern Europe.
I do not agree with the original poster that borders should be closed completely, but right now, too many people with no money, no education and no intention of integrating into society are let into my country (and several other countries too), so maybe its time to restrict immigration even more. Denmark did this, and was widely condemned for it. It will be interesting to see how their crime statistics turn out in the future though.
I also want to say that in Scandinavia rape statistics are very high. The main reason for this is that women now actually report rape, and there is no longer any shame in doing so. I guess on that issue at least, we have come a long way. Too bad that puts us on top of these statistics..... |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Endesu wrote: |
| All my life I have been a supporter of immigration to our country, and I still am. |
Why?
Especially when you are aware that:
| Endesu wrote: |
| certain nationalities and background just dont fit in in liberal societies like we have in Northern Europe. |
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Endesu
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Simply because some of the immigrants have made Norway a much more interesting place to live. And the ones that have, I welcome with open arms. The problem is the small minority who have no interest in contributing.
You cant just say "no" to everyone. Some immigration is beneficial to the country and the economy. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| In 2004, 65% of all reported rapists in Oslo were of immigrant background as opposed to 23% of the population being immigrants. |
I wonder if women are more likely to report a rape if the attacker was an immigrant, and if the police are more likely to take such an attack seriously. I would imagine the answer to both questions is yes. |
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Endesu
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if women are more likely to report a rape if the attacker was an immigrant, and if the police are more likely to take such an attack seriously. I would imagine the answer to both questions is yes.[/quote]
I agree with you on this one. Rapes are committed by immigrants and Norwegians alike, I'm sure. The thing about these latest incidents is that they have been very violent, with victims dragged of the street, dragged by their hair etc. And this, according to police, is whats different about these "immigrant-incidents". |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Endesu wrote: |
Simply because some of the immigrants have made Norway a much more interesting place to live. And the ones that have, I welcome with open arms. The problem is the small minority who have no interest in contributing.
You cant just say "no" to everyone. Some immigration is beneficial to the country and the economy. |
I imagine the rape victims would have been happy to have lived in a less "interesting" Norway.
Norway is one of the richest nations on earth and that wealth is not due to immigration. It would not surprise me if immigration were a net drain, instead.
And yes, you can say no. The Nordic countries said no for a long time, before deciding to become more "interesting" places to live. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: re: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Oh Christ. Yeah, I've turned this into a rant. Posters ask questions and I answer, regardless of if the are relevant to the OP or not. I have to sit here day after day typing essays out, and don't mind the 'running conversations'. Though, it is a bit rich when i get called out for it.
Spinoza, I get the impression that you're a bully. Is that true? Would your peers characterize you as such? I say so, because you speak aggressively, yet don't show the elementary ability to listen. I bet you were either very tall or very fat growing up. How close am I?
Last time. I'm a libertarian. To the point of almost no government. Use your mind. What do YOU think I believe about prohibition?
I think multiculturalism, the welfare state, barbaric ideas contained in islam are all bad. Combined, they are really bad. That straightforward enough for you? |
I am also a libertarian/anarchist, and as such, I've always thought immigration should be totally unlegislated. Doesn't libertarianism necessarily include such a position?
Peace |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
I imagine the rape victims would have been happy to have lived in a less "interesting" Norway.
Norway is one of the richest nations on earth and that wealth is not due to immigration. It would not surprise me if immigration were a net drain, instead.
And yes, you can say no. The Nordic countries said no for a long time, before deciding to become more "interesting" places to live. |
Is your problem with all immigration, dogbert? Or just with non-white immigation? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Is your problem with all immigration, dogbert? Or just with non-white immigation? |
Good question gang ah jee.
And I would add, there is not a developed nation that can avoid immigration/immigrants. And those that would suppose they could, will fall backwards into undevelopment and the backwash of economic flow. The world changes, countries that wish to flourish, must embrace immigrants. Not only for the sake of it, but because the immigrant class from other parts of the world lends as was said, "a differing view" which changes the main culture and makes it better, more flexible and adaptable to change. Also because most immigrants belong to a "trading" class. Very adept at promotion economic activity at the grassroots and invigorating old, staid economies....also because it is the humane thing to do (which Norway has done its great part, helping the weak, with its richess.)
Yes, abominable that these rapes occur. But I thank endesu for highlighting that however dramatic the issue, it is an issue that has more to do with how countries foster the integration of immigrants and less so about any issues of inherent "malevolence" or "evil" in those cultures. He would properly know, from his ground level view. Endesu properly puts the blame on all parties, not just one. And also properly in my mind, puts forth the right future for Norway. Immigration but done well.....this is a future any country can't turn from and all those who shout like Dogbert otherwise, are all just rejects and dross upon the flow of history (sorry for the Hegelian pretenciousness..).
DD |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| I am also a libertarian/anarchist, and as such, I've always thought immigration should be totally unlegislated. Doesn't libertarianism necessarily include such a position? |
BJWD is a libertarian when it suits himself. Like so many. They want their cake and to eat it too.
So easy to just say, "I want people to do whatever they wish". And also so easy to say, "we should stop all xyz" ...........so much more difficult to be forthright and struggle with those positions inbetween.
DD |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have prospered for hundreds of years and most certainly are not in decline.
Who are you to say that what they need is an influx of Somalis and Serbs (token white immigrant troublemakers, gang-ah-jee)?
Your argument is without basis in fact. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| puts forth the right future for Norway. |
That is quite arrogant for you to say, although I doubt you think so.
Even the Norwegian himself says that certain groups are unfit immigrants.
BTW, ddeubel, what is your excuse for the excessive rates of rape these ungrateful immigrants unleash in their new homes? |
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