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gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: A few reasons not to buy a 1080p over a 1080i TV |
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I bought a 1080p TV, opting for the "higher quality" over a 1080i.
The 1080p TVs cost 500,000 to over 1,000,000 more.
I want to tell you that if you're planning on buying soon, please save your money and go with the 1080i TV. Here's why:
1. If you want to view regular DVDs on your new TV, you need an "upscaling" DVD player that upscales to your TVs native resolution. Regular DVDs are 720p, so they need to be upscaled. Whether you buy a 1080i or 1080p, once the image is upscaled correctly, the DVD will look no different (in terms of resolution).
The rub is this: there are now several 1080i upscaling DVD players available in Korea (a few, including a Sony for 140,000 won). There are NOT many 1080p upscaling players in Korea. I just found this out last week. The cheapest one is about 400,000 won. If you try to use a 1080i upscaling DVD player on a TV that's 1080p, your TV will still have to upscale the signal more to match 1080p, and your image will look bad. Let me describe bad... it will look pixelated in some areas during movement, and will have a noticable "compressed look" around the edges of faces, objects, etc... generally poor.
Now, you may be a fan of the Sony PS3, Blu-ray, or even HDDVD. That's fine. They will look best on a 1080p TV. The problem, however, is that Sony's PS3 and XBox 360's internal DVD drives DO NOT UPSCALE the older DVDs well. They look like crap -- like a regular old non-upscaling player -- when played. Sure, the High Definition content looks great, but if you want to watch old DVDs, you need to purchase an upscaling player to match your native resolution. A few of the straight Bluray players (non PS3) will do this fine.
The argument used in stores is that you should go with 1080p. I bought into it, and I have some things to say...
#1. The HD content broadcast by Korea is 1080i. It looks incredible. Stunning. Gorgeous. I have some recorded on my internal drive, and if anyone wants to come over and see this before buying, I'll give you a demo. I have also viewed 1080p footage, and although a hair better, it does not (in my view) justify the cost upgrades to get it on any TV smaller than 50". Yes, the differences are THAT SLIGHT. It might make a bit more of a difference on gaming, but we're splitting hairs here. Sit back more than 2 meters, and you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference on a 42" TV like mine. Yes, 1080i is that great.
#2. Stations will not be broadcasting full 1080p content anytime soon. They already struggle with the transfer limitations of 1080i. It would require much more bandwidth to send 1080p.
#3: You may want 1080p to use your TV as a big computer monitor. Yeah....well... that was my thinking, too. I can do that, but at screen sizes as large as 42" and above, I can tell you from experience that 1920x1080 resolution is NOT ENOUGH RESOLUTION for comfortable everyday use. If using your TV as a giant computer monitor is your goal, and you feel you must, then wait for resolutions higher than 1080p before you buy into it.
I invite anyone over to my place for a demo of my Full HD TV, and I suggest you buy a lower-priced 1080i set. The current PAVV models look the best to me (beating out my LG XCanvas I just got 2 months ago).
Just helped the lady buy a 32 " 1080i TV. It's a Samsung PAVV, and really looks great. It was down to about 1,100,000 won. Quality is stunning.
Last edited by gsxr750r on Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mrsquirrel
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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How do you get HD Korean TV?
Is it piped in through the cables? Or another way? |
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gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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This varies, depending on your cable provider.
Mine has 4 or 5 HDTV Channels that come in on my analogue cable TV wire. I'm able to get them when I pay for basic cable. You can also (I hear) get them off of a TV antenna. I get KBS, EBS, SBS, and MBC in HD. There might be another, but I don't remember. It's cool when they show movies. The news studios and dramas look absolutely stunning. The news has to flip between HD content and standard content (standard looks like crap on all of these TVs).
You can get more HD channels if you have digital cable. Some come at a premium price. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: A few reasons not to buy a 1080p over a 1080i TV |
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| gsxr750r wrote: |
1. If you want to view regular DVDs on your new TV, you need an "upscaling" DVD player that upscales to your TVs native resolution. Regular DVDs are 720p, so they need to be upscaled. |
I'm pretty sure regular DVDs are 480p. But yeah, they need to be upscaled. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: Re: A few reasons not to buy a 1080p over a 1080i TV |
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| gsxr750r wrote: |
| Regular DVDs are 720p, so they need to be upscaled. |
480p when using NTSC. Which back in 1997 was pretty respectable compared to the TVs available.
| Quote: |
| If you try to use a 1080i upscaling DVD player on a TV that's 1080p, your TV will still have to upscale the signal more to match 1080p, and your image will look bad. Let me describe bad... it will look pixelated in some areas during movement, and will have a noticable "compressed look" around the edges of faces, objects, etc... generally poor. |
When changing from 1080i to 1080p, the TV has to combine two 1920x540 images to make a solid 1920x1080 image. However, in instances where the source images of an interlaced picture are to be changing very rapidly, the TV is trying to combine two very different images with the results expected of trying to mix to different pictures together.
Avoiding the use of an "upscaler" that takes a 480p video source to 1080i will avoid that problem. Use the right tool for the job which you had mentioned later.
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| #1. The HD content broadcast by Korea is 1080i. It looks incredible. Stunning. Gorgeous. I have some recorded on my internal drive, and if anyone wants to come over and see this before buying, I'll give you a demo. I have also viewed 1080p footage, and although a hair better, it does not (in my view) justify the cost upgrades to get it on any TV smaller than 50". Yes, the differences are THAT SLIGHT. It might make a bit more of a difference on gaming, but we're splitting hairs here. Sit back more than 2 meters, and you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference on a 42" TV like mine. Yes, 1080i is that great. |
A 1080p and a 1080i image on a TV will look the same under generic scenes. Any difference seen is strictly the result of one believing it should look better.
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| #2. Stations will not be broadcasting full 1080p content anytime soon. They already struggle with the transfer limitations of 1080i. It would require much more bandwidth to send 1080p. |
1080p and 1080i both use the same amount of data to display an image. It requires no more bandwidth. 1080p is generally not broadcast simply because most people don't have a 1080p TV. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1544/The-Facts-and-Fiction-of-1080p/p1/ |
This article has so many levels of wrong that it hurts. But my favourite was this one:
"When you do the math, you see that 1080i60 (and also 1080p30) only delivers 12% more pixels per second than 720p60. This is why most people can�t tell the difference between 1080i and 720p broadcasting - because their eyes and brain are practically seeing the same number of pixels per second. "
Because 320x240 at 400 frames a second is much better than 1024x768 at 60 frames a second. It's practically the same number of pixels per second! |
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gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Blech... yah, I just threw out the wrong number for DVD... always get numbers mixed up when I'm thinking of my DVD Camera, which shoots at 720x486. Ugh...
Yeah, I'm not thrilled with the difference offered on my 1080p set, in general. Maybe I will be more happy about it when content is available for that, but basically, it's not needed.
Save money and get 1080i.
I hear higher resolutions yet are in the pipeline (only useful for massive displays you probably wouldn't buy for a home, and dual-use as a computer monitor).
And Gord, I can definitely see a difference between 720p and 1080i. I've compressed HD video to both (and viewed uncompressed), and I can tell easily (when side-by-side, that is). If someone showed me a TV and asked me to tell them if it was broadcasting at 720p or 1080i, I bet you I could tell the difference most of the time. Maybe I'd be fooled a few times, but I know what to look for in the image.
Last edited by gsxr750r on Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| I guess my earlier screenshots comparing 1080p on my FullHD TV didn't help. |
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gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:47 am Post subject: |
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rock, it's because the image wasn't moving. 1080p has the image fields combined, right? 1080i stills only show part of what you're seeing, I think, so it looks even more jagged.
Man, the 1080i footage from the Korean soaps looks absolutely gorgeous. Like art. There are times when I want to soften the image (which you can do) because it looks sharper than real-life. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| gsxr750r wrote: |
| And Gord, I can definitely see a difference between 720p and 1080i. I've compressed HD video to both (and viewed uncompressed), and I can tell easily (when side-by-side, that is). If someone showed me a TV and asked me to tell them if it was broadcasting at 720p or 1080i, I bet you I could tell the difference most of the time. Maybe I'd be fooled a few times, but I know what to look for in the image. |
Well, yes. There is a difference between 720p and 1080i. I never suggested that there wasn't. |
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gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| There are already a large number of 1080p HDTV sets on the market, which upconvert all incoming signals, including standard-definition TVs, DVDs, HDTVs and PCs, to their panels� native resolution of 1920x1080 pixels. Ironically, these 1080p televisions can not accept a 1080p signal. Yes, you read that correctly. |
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As mentioned on the first page, these 1080p displays upconvert all incoming signals to their 1080p native resolution, but they can not accept a native or compressed 1080p signal.
Luckily, the first 1080p input capable HDTVs are coming and we bring you the lowdown...
The hype surrounding 1080p can be considered mostly smoke and mirrors due to the difference between an HDTV being a 1080p display and actually having the ability to accept a 1080p signal. |
Gord, your Xbox article is a year out-of-date. The TVs now (mine included) can certainly accept 1080p signals. Their arguments are based on sets that said they were 1080p, but wouldn't accept that signal, therefore 720p is better (in their minds).
You have to consider who wrote that article. It was written for Xbox 360 people, who have been bitching/moaning that the Xbox 360 doesn't have HDMI. Microsoft has been trying to downplay HDMI and 1080p for the past year, because it makes the Xbox 360 sound inferior to the Sony PS3. And guess what... months after this article, MS came out with 1080p capability through VGA, and now MS is now releasing the Xbox 360 with HDMI and 1080p -- something they blatantly said they had no interest in doing.
Clearly, MS was trying to keep people from hanging and waiting before buying the upgraded Xbox 360, and also trying to downplay the use of 1080p via HDMI on the PS3.
Also, their use of rear-projection TVs (which suck by comparison) dates the article. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| gsxr750r wrote: |
| Gord, your Xbox article is a year out-of-date. The TVs now (mine included) can certainly accept 1080p signals. Their arguments are based on sets that said they were 1080p, but wouldn't accept that signal, therefore 720p is better (in their minds). |
You keep crediting me with things I have nothing to do with. I didn't originally link to the article, and I think the person who wrote it is borderline retarded but really likes games. |
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gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:23 am Post subject: |
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I shouldn't post and drive at the same time...  |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: Re: A few reasons not to buy a 1080p over a 1080i TV |
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| gsxr750r wrote: |
1. If you want to view regular DVDs on your new TV, you need an "upscaling" DVD player that upscales to your TVs native resolution. Regular DVDs are 720p, so they need to be upscaled. Whether you buy a 1080i or 1080p, once the image is upscaled correctly, the DVD will look no different (in terms of resolution).
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Firstly regular DVDs are not 720 but 480i (720�480 NTSC or 720�576 PAL).
Secondly, there is no marked improvement in the quality when using an upscaler or a DVD player than can upscale because the resolution remains the same, only the size of the picture changes. If anything, they usually allow the signals to be transmitted digitally rather than via analog to DVI-equipped high-def TVs.
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The rub is this: there are now several 1080i upscaling DVD players available in Korea (a few, including a Sony for 140,000 won). There are NOT many 1080p upscaling players in Korea. I just found this out last week. The cheapest one is about 400,000 won. If you try to use a 1080i upscaling DVD player on a TV that's 1080p, your TV will still have to upscale the signal more to match 1080p, and your image will look bad. Let me describe bad... it will look pixelated in some areas during movement, and will have a noticable "compressed look" around the edges of faces, objects, etc... generally poor.
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Your problem is that you're trying to buy a player designed to play a certain format on a screen designed for a different format. Sort of like using VLC to play WMV, it does the job but Media Player is better for it. Also, interlaced is more suited to fast paced action like sports than progressive, so you will see more artifacts on the screen if that is what you're trying to say.
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Now, you may be a fan of the Sony PS3, Blu-ray, or even HDDVD. That's fine. They will look best on a 1080p TV. The problem, however, is that Sony's PS3 and XBox 360's internal DVD drives DO NOT UPSCALE the older DVDs well. They look like crap -- like a regular old non-upscaling player -- when played. Sure, the High Definition content looks great, but if you want to watch old DVDs, you need to purchase an upscaling player to match your native resolution. A few of the straight Bluray players (non PS3) will do this fine.
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You do know that movies were originally downgraded to fit DVD screens right? With HD and beyond, the bridge between the original and mass produced copies have become just that much closer. In point, if you buy a HD tv, you're investing into the next generation movies which will be in HD and no longer in DVD. We all did the VHS-DVD transition so...
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The argument used in stores is that you should go with 1080p. I bought into it, and I have some things to say...
#1. The HD content broadcast by Korea is 1080i. It looks incredible. Stunning. Gorgeous. I have some recorded on my internal drive, and if anyone wants to come over and see this before buying, I'll give you a demo. I have also viewed 1080p footage, and although a hair better, it does not (in my view) justify the cost upgrades to get it on any TV smaller than 50". Yes, the differences are THAT SLIGHT. It might make a bit more of a difference on gaming, but we're splitting hairs here. Sit back more than 2 meters, and you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference on a 42" TV like mine. Yes, 1080i is that great.
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Your screen is not big enough to appreciate the big difference between 1080i and 1080p. We are all comparing 720p and 1080i/p, but a choice I would go with 1080p every time because it is the superior resolution. All it need are the players to make use of it.
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#2. Stations will not be broadcasting full 1080p content anytime soon. They already struggle with the transfer limitations of 1080i. It would require much more bandwidth to send 1080p.
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Can't argue with this, though technology has continued to prove us wrong every time.
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#3: You may want 1080p to use your TV as a big computer monitor. Yeah....well... that was my thinking, too. I can do that, but at screen sizes as large as 42" and above, I can tell you from experience that 1920x1080 resolution is NOT ENOUGH RESOLUTION for comfortable everyday use. If using your TV as a giant computer monitor is your goal, and you feel you must, then wait for resolutions higher than 1080p before you buy into it.
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I haven't used my notebook screen since I bought the TV. It has been my monitor every day and I love it. My previous 30" with 2500bazillion x 1650bazillion pixels would have been too small for me to see from a distant. As a platform for my 3D stuff it was great but 1920x1080 is good enough since the TV doubles as a second monitor.
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I invite anyone over to my place for a demo of my Full HD TV, and I suggest you buy a lower-priced 1080i set. The current PAVV models look the best to me (beating out my LG XCanvas I just got 2 months ago).
Just helped the lady buy a 32 " 1080i TV. It's a Samsung PAVV, and really looks great. It was down to about 1,100,000 won. Quality is stunning. |
My advice is to sell the 1080p. I think with your reception it should be a bargain for us. I'm interested  |
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