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ceres
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: Blacklists? |
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I'm new to this board (though I've been reading for a couple days, and I went through a lot of the FAQs). I've been looking at different places to teach (Japan and Korea being the two main countries), and I think I've decided on Korea, for a number of reasons.
I don't know much about the school system in Korea, and I'm not sure that I'm entirely fussed about who I teach, but finding a bad school really does concern me. I've got a phone interview with Footprints on Tuesday, and while this teaching experience something I'm increasingly excited about, I want to make sure that I can research fully any position offered to me. I can speak Japanese well enough, but I don't know any Korean. Immersion environments don't scare me as I've operated in them before, but I'm more worried about finding my way to a place that won't try to avoid paying me.
I suppose what I'm looking for is some sort of blacklist of schools. Does such a thing exist? What's the best way to research the reputations of these schools, especially not yet knowing any Korean? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Blacklists? |
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| ceres wrote: |
I'm new to this board (though I've been reading for a couple days, and I went through a lot of the FAQs). I've been looking at different places to teach (Japan and Korea being the two main countries), and I think I've decided on Korea, for a number of reasons.
I don't know much about the school system in Korea, and I'm not sure that I'm entirely fussed about who I teach, but finding a bad school really does concern me. I've got a phone interview with Footprints on Tuesday, and while this teaching experience something I'm increasingly excited about, I want to make sure that I can research fully any position offered to me. I can speak Japanese well enough, but I don't know any Korean. Immersion environments don't scare me as I've operated in them before, but I'm more worried about finding my way to a place that won't try to avoid paying me.
I suppose what I'm looking for is some sort of blacklist of schools. Does such a thing exist? What's the best way to research the reputations of these schools, especially not yet knowing any Korean? |
There are several things you can do.
1) when you get a contract and job offer, post the contract in the contract thread and get some opinions on the illegal clauses in it.
CONTRACT POSTING THREAD: post 'em here for a review
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=59265
2) Take what the recruiter tells you with a grain of salt. The team at footprints (Ben and his aliases) are in Vancouver CANADA and NOT in Korea. They cannot and have not checked the school out. They have about the same ability to check a school that you do and they get paid by the school so they are NOT working for you. they are not as good with teacher satisfaction as they would like you to believe.
(I admit I am another disgruntled customer of Footprints).
3) Then: when you do the interview with the school get the e-mail addresses of the foreign teachers.
Talk to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder).
-What are the hours? (start time / stop time / breaks).
-How many classes per day, week, month? NOT hour many hours per month. 30 classroom hours can mean anything from 1350 -1800 minutes per week standing in front of the class. The difference can be up to 7.5 HOURS in front of the class EACH WEEK.
-Do they ALWAYS pay on time?
-Do they pay at the end of your month or do they have a hold back period (5-10 days after your month end) to prevent runners? (no=red flag 1)
-Do they really pay overtime or avoid it with creative book keeping?
-Do you get credit for classes on the national holidays or do you get the day off but still have to work your 120 hours before you get overtime? (no=red flag 2)
-Do they have national medical (with the little booklet)? (no=red flag 3)
-Do they pay into pension? (no=red flag 4)
-What about the holidays? 10 or more WORKING days? (legal requirement here) (no=red flag 5)
-When and how do you get your holidays?
-What extra stuff do you really have to do - mentioned or not in the contract.
-Then consider the quality of life issues - things that are important to you that aren't mentioned here (housing, furnishings, THE BATHROOM, access to recreational facilities, shopping, banking).
Do they take additional deposits in addition to the delay in payday? (yes=red flag 6)
Most newbies are all starry-eyed when they do their interview and DON'T ASK the right questions then get burned when they get here.
There are no shortage of jobs. 20,000 positions and 11,000 applicants. Anything you look at will still be there tomorrow. Don't be pressured into anything. Take your time and do it right.
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ceres
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Is it really on to ask schools for the email addresses of their foreign employees?
My priorities are:
- Absolutely 100% on-time payment (I don't like to have to wonder about these things)
- Decent housing. It doesn't have to be big, it just has to be private and heated and all that good stuff.
- No hidden fees (Yes I am awfully concerned about getting paid)
- I uh.. have this kitty that I love dearly, and I want to be able to bring her, although I'm not sure the school would care about this anyway.
- Legal minimum for vacation days, and I would really really like to have weekends off. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ceres wrote: |
Is it really on to ask schools for the email addresses of their foreign employees?
My priorities are:
- Absolutely 100% on-time payment (I don't like to have to wonder about these things)
- Decent housing. It doesn't have to be big, it just has to be private and heated and all that good stuff.
- No hidden fees (Yes I am awfully concerned about getting paid)
- I uh.. have this kitty that I love dearly, and I want to be able to bring her, although I'm not sure the school would care about this anyway.
- Legal minimum for vacation days, and I would really really like to have weekends off. |
If you get a contract and they can't/won't give you a contact for the current/previous foreign staff, then move on. #1 bad sign, expecially for a private school or hakwon.
This is published by the Canadian embassy. The American embassy has a similar one if you want to hunt for it. http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/korea-en.asp
Get a public school job. No worries about pay or benefits and at the worst they will meet the required legal minimums. Usually they exceed the minimum standards required by law (pay, medical, pension, holidays).
I don't know what you mean about hidden fees. examples?
As long as you meet the requirements for importing an animal (shots, vet report, airline requirements) you can bring your cat. |
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ceres
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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A friend of mine said that he has a friend who is teaching in Korea, and then shortly after arriving, this friend ran into all kinds of fees that he'd never been told about, to such a degree that he had to stay and work for 2-3 more years to pay them off. It sounds like kind of a weird story to me, honestly, but after reading some of the threads here I think I could find my way to believing it.
Of course, maybe this person ended up having to pay their airfare for some reason, but even that shouldn't take the years to pay off that this guy made it sound like.
Are public school jobs harder to get? |
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Sam Spade
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Location: Lost Somewhere in Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Blacklists? |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
Most newbies are all starry-eyed when they do their interview and DON'T ASK the right questions then get burned when they get here.
There are no shortage of jobs. 20,000 positions and 11,000 applicants. Anything you look at will still be there tomorrow. Don't be pressured into anything. Take your time and do it right.
Get a public school job. No worries about pay or benefits and at the worst they will meet the required legal minimums. Usually they exceed the minimum standards required by law (pay, medical, pension, holidays). |
All excellent advice IMHO |
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ron_j
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Tom is dead on.
As for blacklists....there are many out there Ceres but I would take what you find on them with a giant dose of skepticism.
Why?
Because most blacklists do not investigate claims made about schools so you really have no idea how reliable the comment made about a school is. It could be from a teacher who did get cheated but it could also be by some drunken irreponsable idiot who is pissed off because he got canned or because he hates the fact he ahs to actually work.
Many schools get blacklisted for valid reasons but many get blacklisted based on false claims.....so thread carefully when you read blacklists. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| ceres wrote: |
A friend of mine said that he has a friend who is teaching in Korea, and then shortly after arriving, this friend ran into all kinds of fees that he'd never been told about, to such a degree that he had to stay and work for 2-3 more years to pay them off. It sounds like kind of a weird story to me, honestly, but after reading some of the threads here I think I could find my way to believing it.
Of course, maybe this person ended up having to pay their airfare for some reason, but even that shouldn't take the years to pay off that this guy made it sound like.
Are public school jobs harder to get? |
I want to hear more about this story.
Do a public school. They are easy to get. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Ceres- you can always post the name of a school on this site and ask if anyone knows anything about it. |
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ceres
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the advice, everyone. I suppose nothing is going to be easy, no matter where you go. 
I've seen people posting about their schools on this site, so it's comforting that I can do that, at least.
As for the story I posted, I do wish I knew more, such as the name of the school and who the recruiter was, as well as what kind of fees he was talking about.. Unfortunately the whole thing was second-hand. The only thing he remembered was something about Korean JET. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| ceres wrote: |
Thank you for the advice, everyone. I suppose nothing is going to be easy, no matter where you go.
I've seen people posting about their schools on this site, so it's comforting that I can do that, at least.
As for the story I posted, I do wish I knew more, such as the name of the school and who the recruiter was, as well as what kind of fees he was talking about.. Unfortunately the whole thing was second-hand. The only thing he remembered was something about Korean JET. |
JET is in japan. |
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ceres
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| ceres wrote: |
Thank you for the advice, everyone. I suppose nothing is going to be easy, no matter where you go.
I've seen people posting about their schools on this site, so it's comforting that I can do that, at least.
As for the story I posted, I do wish I knew more, such as the name of the school and who the recruiter was, as well as what kind of fees he was talking about.. Unfortunately the whole thing was second-hand. The only thing he remembered was something about Korean JET. |
JET is in japan. |
I realize. That's one reason I wish he remembered the story more clearly. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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One of the bad things about blacklists is that they're incomplete. Many suffer at bad hogwans and then won't post anything to warn others. It's pretty chickensh1t of people to do this, but many don't pass on a warning.  |
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ceres
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Clarification on the second-hand story my friend gave me:
I emailed the person himself (let's call him Jim). Jim said that no, he was never cheated, he just didn't realize how hard it was going to be to basically be alone for the first couple months he was there, and that he had quite a lot of culture shock. It seems to him that most of his friends at the time just wanted to hear the negative things, and Jim doesn't regret going at all.
So basically, the friend who told me this story was trying to scare me.
Not that half the stuff you find on this forum isn't scary enough, but at least it's one more person who's glad he went. |
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