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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: Orwell's London neighborhood covered in spy-cameras |
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Orwell's London neighborhood covered in spy-cameras
Dozens of private and public spy-cameras surveil the streets, walls and windows of the area around George Orwell's apartment. Britain, the nation that "sleepwalked into a surveillance society," has created the landscape that Orwell envisioned, a world where your every step is recorded from every angle. And as Cardinal Richelieu said, "If you give me six lines written by the most honest man, I will find something in them to hang him." Is there any among us whose movements aren't suspicious under the wrong circumstances?
On the wall outside his former residence - flat number 27B - where Orwell lived until his death in 1950, an historical plaque commemorates the anti-authoritarian author. And within 200 yards of the flat, there are 32 CCTV cameras, scanning every move.
Orwell's view of the tree-filled gardens outside the flat is under 24-hour surveillance from two cameras perched on traffic lights.
The flat's rear windows are constantly viewed from two more security cameras outside a conference centre in Canonbury Place.
In a lane, just off the square, close to Orwell's favourite pub, the Compton Arms, a camera at the rear of a car dealership records every person entering or leaving the pub.
Within a 200-yard radius of the flat, there are another 28 CCTV cameras, together with hundreds of private, remote-controlled security cameras used to scrutinise visitors to homes, shops and offices. |
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/04/01/orwells_london_neigh.html
What is wrong with England?
Kinda related to this, or not at all, a SINGLE ticket on the London Metro at peak time is 12-28$USD!! |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Whats wrong with England? Maybe the fact thay they are spineless. If England grew a backbone and did something with the vipers nest of terrorism it calls its Muslim community, maybe the wouldnt need to have all these cameras to stop terrorists. Close down the mosques breeding anti western idiots, arrest and deport anyone teaching hatred at these places and for chrissakes do not pander to them or walk on eggshells around them. You know what Im talking about: the thread you put up about not teaching the holocaust because it might offend them because some clown at the mosque is teaching them that the holocaust didnt happen. English solution? Dont teach the holocaust. The RIGHT solution? Arrest the clown in the mosque, imprison him or deport him back to the hellhole he came from and teach HISTORY. Close down the mosque if necessary. That would require a backbone wouldnt it. But since Britain does nothing but go cry to Putin when its soldiers are kidnapped, I hardly expect them to make the right choices. |
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Canuck Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Orwell's London neighborhood covered in spy-cameras |
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[quote="BJWD"]
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Britain, the nation that "sleepwalked into a surveillance society,"
... Is there any among us whose movements aren't suspicious under the wrong circumstances?
...What is wrong with England?
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aren't you focusing on the wrong aspect of this situation? English people are attacked and are repeatedly threatened with more violence and terror and you focus on their putting up cameras in the downtown core. check your priorities mate. and your comment about suspicion has no relevance to this situation. cameras aren�t there in response to suspicious behaviour, they are there to prevent a repeat of the killing by their own "citizens" who have more allegiance to their twisted sense of religion than to their fellow man!
what is wrong with England you ask. they were an open society that paid for the lack of security that comes from a such a society. its rather sad that in order to protect ourselves from terrorists, we have to live more like them; in a state of reduced freedoms and liberties. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Orwell's London neighborhood covered in spy-cameras |
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[quote="Canuck Teacher"]
| BJWD wrote: |
| Quote: |
Britain, the nation that "sleepwalked into a surveillance society,"
... Is there any among us whose movements aren't suspicious under the wrong circumstances?
...What is wrong with England?
|
aren't you focusing on the wrong aspect of this situation? English people are attacked and are repeatedly threatened with more violence and terror and you focus on their putting up cameras in the downtown core. check your priorities mate. and your comment about suspicion has no relevance to this situation. cameras aren�t there in response to suspicious behaviour, they are there to prevent a repeat of the killing by their own "citizens" who have more allegiance to their twisted sense of religion than to their fellow man!
what is wrong with England you ask. they were an open society that paid for the lack of security that comes from a such a society. its rather sad that in order to protect ourselves from terrorists, we have to live more like them; in a state of reduced freedoms and liberties. |
I have no inside knowledge on this situation. All I really know is that the UK, it would seem to me, is a deeply unfree place. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Bet half those cameras don't even work and the rest are kept maintained are traffic cameras.
But remember the terrorists on trail in the UK at the moment were caught partly thanks to CCTV footage taken on buses and the tube.
I don't mind you watching me in the street or in your shop just lay of the wire taps. How are the wire taps in America going? Guess we could all do with a new spine.  |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm from Canada. And our government has far too much domestic spying power. The UK, however, is in a whole other world. |
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Scouse Mouse
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Location: Cloud #9
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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A couple of facts about terrorism...
For years the UK were under terrorist attack from the IRA and america did nothing to help us despite the fact that the IRA were recieving most of their funding from Irish-American organisations. The US goverment were aware of this and did nothing to assist us.
The UK were the only country to stand by the US after 9/11.
From those 2 snippets of information it could be said that one country is spineless and the other able to fight domestic terrorism single handedly whilst always willing to assist an ally... |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Scouse Mouse wrote: |
The UK were the only country to stand by the US after 9/11.
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Not true. UK was one of a number of countries. Spain before the commies got in was there. Poland, South Korea, Canada, etc. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Scouse Mouse wrote: |
A couple of facts about terrorism...
For years the UK were under terrorist attack from the IRA and america did nothing to help us despite the fact that the IRA were recieving most of their funding from Irish-American organisations. The US goverment were aware of this and did nothing to assist us.
The UK were the only country to stand by the US after 9/11.
From those 2 snippets of information it could be said that one country is spineless and the other able to fight domestic terrorism single handedly whilst always willing to assist an ally... |
The fact that you change this into a USA vs UK pissing match stands as a testament to how far gone the UK is. You can't even hear criticism of your home without slamming the USA. This, has NOTHING to do with the USA. You need to ask yourself who benefits from a society that is unable to criticize in any meaningful way the state and then examine why you reacted the way you did. Why is London covered in cameras? Who does that really benefit?
Two questions for you:
1) Who taught you to think like this?
and
2) Are the same people who taught you to think like this the prime beneficiaries of your disposition?
As in, are the ones who taught you to deflect the same people benefiting from the deflection. The answer is yes, btw. What does this tell you? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
I'm from Canada.
And our government has far too much domestic spying power. |
Care to explain? |
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badfish
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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But remember the terrorists on trail in the UK at the moment were caught partly thanks to CCTV footage taken on buses and the tube.
That's exactly how they want you to think.. people say they don't mind because they're not doing anything wrong and the next thing you know the TV is watching you and telling you when to get up and what to eat and how many steps it takes you to get to work at least I think that is what Orwell was trying to say |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ha. A bit like putting a shopping mall near Walden pond? |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a problem with it in the least. I'm strongly in favor of increased surveillance, always have been, not just related to terrorism (this article doesn't mention terrorism) but related to other crime, drunken street violence, vandalism, muggings of little old ladies, etc. If it acts as a deterrant to any of these things (cameras are unlikely to deter a suicide bomber of course - so a potential flaw there) I think it's worth it.
| Quote: |
| You know what Im talking about: the thread you put up about not teaching the holocaust because it might offend them because some clown at the mosque is teaching them that the holocaust didnt happen. English solution? Dont teach the holocaust. The RIGHT solution? |
That was the solution of one school. The English solution is to make the teaching of the Holocaust compulsory in the new National Curriculum, it is expected. So these types of schools, confronted with classes of 80% Muslim mouthbreathing anti-semitic oiks, won't have this choice in the future (we hope). The Blair govt was a keen sponsor of the Iraq War particularly because of the potential relationship between Saddam and his WMD and terrorism. It bills itself as a govt that wants to get tough on terrorism, so if teaching of the Holocaust becomes compulsory as we expect, then this is taking a firm stance against problems with Muslims and the hitherto non-compulsory status of the Holocaust.
The poster above's point about the US was that the Blair govt is a protagonist in the War on Terror. That's why the Holocaust will become compulsory in history classes as opposed to non-compulsory as it has been. It's highly unlikely the Blair govt will take any other option. This strict policy with security cameras seems commensurate with such a govt. I'm out of touch with affairs back home but I assume the reason the Blair govt doesn't have stricter policies towards Mosques is because there's little if any evidence that anti-Western hate is being spewed out of any more than a minority of such places. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it. |
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Scouse Mouse
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Location: Cloud #9
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Scouse Mouse wrote: |
A couple of facts about terrorism...
For years the UK were under terrorist attack from the IRA and america did nothing to help us despite the fact that the IRA were recieving most of their funding from Irish-American organisations. The US goverment were aware of this and did nothing to assist us.
The UK were the only country to stand by the US after 9/11.
From those 2 snippets of information it could be said that one country is spineless and the other able to fight domestic terrorism single handedly whilst always willing to assist an ally... |
The fact that you change this into a USA vs UK pissing match stands as a testament to how far gone the UK is. You can't even hear criticism of your home without slamming the USA. This, has NOTHING to do with the USA. You need to ask yourself who benefits from a society that is unable to criticize in any meaningful way the state and then examine why you reacted the way you did. Why is London covered in cameras? Who does that really benefit?
Two questions for you:
1) Who taught you to think like this?
and
2) Are the same people who taught you to think like this the prime beneficiaries of your disposition?
As in, are the ones who taught you to deflect the same people benefiting from the deflection. The answer is yes, btw. What does this tell you? |
My post was in response to the first reply made in this thread. THAT post turned it into a pissing contest
For an outsider it may appear that the UK is a surveilance orientated Big Brother state, but this simply isn't the case. Surveilance cameras are installed as a deterrent to crime. They are effective in their role, and also serve a greater purpose in that they are effective in their use as an investigative tool.
What most outsiders don't seem to realise is that the UK also has the strongest privacy laws in the western world. The Government can not simply monitor the cameras for the hell of it. If a store has CCTV, they are only allowed to legally review the tapes if they are investigated a documented crime, and everytime a tape is viewed there needs to be paperwork that explains why.
If you are caught on CCTV you are entitled to request a copy of all footage of yourself (and any paperwork relating to it) at any time and the organisation that holds the footage can not refuse as long as you pay a minimal admin fee. This is extremely expensive for the companies involved as they must pixellate the faces of any person who does not conbsent to you having their information.
I am not blinded in my love for the UK. The country has deteriorated a lot over the past 30 years, but I still think the government is doing a decent job at protecting the rights of the individual whilst protecting society in general. It is somewhat amusing to me that the 'leader of the free world' have implemented the "Patriot" Act whilst the UK still has laws ensuring that phone tap evidence can not be used in court... and yet Britain is the Big Brother state?
[quote=jinju]If England grew a backbone and did something with the vipers nest of terrorism it calls its Muslim community[/quote]
As an englishman with muslim friends I find this attitude both shocking and offensive. This attitude is the very reason there are so many problems with the Muslim community at present.
In the UK we largely welcome the CCTV presence. It provides us with some safety and does a large part in enabling us to track the movements of the unsavoury element within our isles. CCTV played a large part in ensuring that the failed London bombers were not able to try again. I also enabled us to track the movements of a terrorist ring that were planning to detanate flights en-route to the USA.
I love America and I believe that 75% of the american people are wonderful people. Unfortunately, the other 25% are morons and one of the 25 happens to hold the most powerful office in the world. With the current political climate western countries need to do all that they can to make their countries a safer place. I would rather that this involved CCTV on the streets than have the government make it legal to spy on its citizens for the sheer hell of it, and yet allow the same people to be able to buy and sell guns with impunity! |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Whats wrong with England? Maybe the fact thay they are spineless. If England grew a backbone and did something with the vipers nest of terrorism it calls its Muslim community, maybe the wouldnt need to have all these cameras to stop terrorists. Close down the mosques breeding anti western idiots, arrest and deport anyone teaching hatred at these places and for chrissakes do not pander to them or walk on eggshells around them. You know what Im talking about: the thread you put up about not teaching the holocaust because it might offend them because some clown at the mosque is teaching them that the holocaust didnt happen. English solution? Dont teach the holocaust. The RIGHT solution? Arrest the clown in the mosque, imprison him or deport him back to the hellhole he came from and teach HISTORY. Close down the mosque if necessary. That would require a backbone wouldnt it. But since Britain does nothing but go cry to Putin when its soldiers are kidnapped, I hardly expect them to make the right choices. |
Aaah, Jinju, eslcafe's cheerleader for the new holocaust. We'll see you in the Hague, baby. |
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