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Grammar Qst 2

 
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demi



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:27 am    Post subject: Grammar Qst 2 Reply with quote

"People often adopt clothing styles which distinguish 'them/themselves' from other groups of people in their society."

According to an exam all the students had in high school. 'Themselves' is incorrect and only 'them' is acceptable.

Do you agree? Why?
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billybrobby



Joined: 09 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Grammar Qst 2 Reply with quote

demi wrote:
"People often adopt clothing styles which distinguish 'them/themselves' from other groups of people in their society."

According to an exam all the students had in high school. 'Themselves' is incorrect and only 'them' is acceptable.

Do you agree? Why?


Maybe because "clothing" and not "people" is the subject of that phrase. Therefore by using "themselves" you make it seem like the clothing was being distinguished and not the people.

Break it into 2 sentences. People adopt clothing styles. The clothing styles distinguish them from other groups. You can see "themselves" would be kind weird there.

But honestly, what kind of ridiculous quiz is this? Why in all holy f*cking hell are they asking questions that are difficult and pointless for native speakers to answer when I'll be half those kids can't use "a" and "the" correctly.


Last edited by billybrobby on Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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kimchi story



Joined: 23 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because 'them' is the third person plural object pronoun.

Alternatively: People distinguish themselves from others through the adoption of certain clothing styles.

'Themselves' is a reflexive pronoun and a reflexive pronoun is used when the subject and object both refer to the same person or thing.

In your example clothing styles are doing the distinguishing, not people.

(edited to add: simulpost - we're saying the same thing)


Last edited by kimchi story on Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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demi



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But honestly, what kind of ridiculous quiz is this? Why in all holy f*cking hell are they asking questions that are difficult and pointless for native speakers to answer when I'll be half those kids can't use "a" and "the" correctly.


Cheers Billy
I know! It's so stupid! My high school kids are at a really low level. Elementary. But these are the kinds of questions they have to answer in exams. I think this one was a National exam, not 100% sure though.
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demi



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to thank kimichi.

Thanks kimchi Smile
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RACETRAITOR



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's ridiculous. I probably would've gotten it wrong myself.

Fluent English speakers make tons of mistakes. I guess it's just that we make different mistakes from Koreans, so ours are considered more acceptable.
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billybrobby



Joined: 09 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

demi wrote:
Quote:
But honestly, what kind of ridiculous quiz is this? Why in all holy f*cking hell are they asking questions that are difficult and pointless for native speakers to answer when I'll be half those kids can't use "a" and "the" correctly.


Cheers Billy
I know! It's so stupid! My high school kids are at a really low level. Elementary. But these are the kinds of questions they have to answer in exams. I think this one was a National exam, not 100% sure though.


Arrgh...that's the worst kind of pendantry. They are really doing a disservice to those kids. Well, rest assured that your job future is secure in this country.
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kimchi story



Joined: 23 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

demi wrote:
Thanks kimchi Smile


Aww shucks - you're welcome. I think the question is only absurd if there is no focus on the use of object and subject pronouns in the curriculum - and I think there is. When I explain it to my middle schoolers in English they have some trouble, but when my coteacher steps up it becomes obvious that they know the material and are only struggling when I use English terms to describe it.

It seems to me like a weeder question, to weed the Bs from the As.

Anyone see what happened to the 'Tact with your co-teacher' thread?
It's, like, *poof*
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faster



Joined: 03 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That really shouldn't be difficult. Reflexive verb phrases are pretty clear-cut.
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's confusing because the subject is people, but the object has a relative clause nested within it.
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