| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
 Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Hmm.
The Nowhere Man phenomenon again. A year or so ago, I made it clear that I shed no tears over the American govt's probable treatment of KSM. I believe it was wrong if they disappeared, tortured him, etc. But given the special situation he presents, given the information we needed from him, given the egregious nature of 9/11, yeah, as I said: no tears. Whatever they did to him was probably the right thing to do -- negative consequences and all.
Of course, when I said that, Nowhere Man followed up with a series of prosecutorial cross-examinations designed to get me to say something like this...
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| ...[generally] approves of secret prisons and such. |
His pattern towards me here: hounding, stalking, leading and dishonest questions, deliberately mischaracterizing, systematic and long-term effort to discredit...note the fact that he just resurrected a year-old thread. Note the personal nature of his commentary as well...
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| People like you. |
In any case, it is what it is. But I will not respond to him directly, these baiting games that he plays.
For the record: I do not support "secret prisons and such" -- whatever that means (and note, again, its open-ended, leading nature). I can easily clarify this: the American govt ought not run or contract out secret prisons and use forbidden interrogation techniques. Period. Contradicts my special position on KSM, though, does it not?
So what? Contradictions plague human affairs. Sue me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: ... |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I can easily clarify this: the American govt ought not run or contract out secret prisons and use forbidden interrogation techniques. Period. Contradicts my special position on KSM, though, does it not? |
So is it fair to say your "periods" are more like asterisks?
| Quote: |
| His pattern towards me here: hounding, stalking, leading and dishonest questions, deliberately mischaracterizing, systematic and long-term effort to discredit...note the fact that he just resurrected a year-old thread. Note the personal nature of his commentary as well... |
Note that if there's any substance to these claims, you can complain to a mod. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
while a lot of people rip the US for secret prisions and other stuff.
Lets keep one thing in mind Bill Clinton himself said that the US justice system was not up to convicting (that is not an exact quote but it is close) Bin Laden in 1996.
Anyone who calls for things to be returned to the way they were before 9-11 is saying it is okay for the US to have a system that is can not handle the theat the US now faces. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: ... |
|
|
| Is the US can handle secret prisons and torture? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
|
|
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Is the US can handle secret prisons and torture? |
Secret prisons for Al Qaeda king pins ? Sure. You think Khalid Sheik Mommand out to get all the benefits of being a POW?
And define torture? Is making someone listen to rock music torture?
You think the US would be better off or worse off today if Bin Laden was put into a secret prison in 1996?
You think the US would be better off today or worse off today if the US had kidnapped Khomeni before he got to Iran and put him in a secret prision. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: ... |
|
|
See the geneva conventions.
And yes, I think everyone and anyone should be entitled to them.
I also think that te US torturing and using secret prisons is unconstitutional.
Do you? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
|
|
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
See the geneva conventions.
And yes, I think everyone and anyone should be entitled to them.
I also think that te US torturing and using secret prisons is unconstitutional.
Do you? |
Calling Al Qaeda pows is an insult of POWS.
again.
You think the US would be better off or worse off today if Bin Laden was put into a secret prison in 1996?
You think the US would be better off today or worse off today if the US had kidnapped Khomeni before he got to Iran and put him in a secret prision. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: ... |
|
|
Well, no.
I don't see AQ as deserving some special treatment we didn't give the Nazis.
And, no, Khomeni and Bin laden don't make secret prisons ok.
but i guess you think so, eh? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
|
|
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Well, no.
I don't see AQ as deserving some special treatment we didn't give the Nazis.
And, no, Khomeni and Bin laden don't make secret prisons ok.
but i guess you think so, eh? |
So you don't think the US would be better off today if the US had tossed Khomeni and Bin Laden in secret prisons when they were both vulnerable to being kidnapped?
Remember Bill Clinton said that the US did not have the evidence to convict Bin Laden in a US court. Sandy Burger wanted to Saudis to execute him for the US.
Every war is different.
Not everyone in the German army was a volunteer. Every AQ member is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| So you don't think the US would be better off today if the US had tossed Khomeni and Bin Laden in secret prisons when they were both vulnerable to being kidnapped? |
No, not really. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Khomeni and his government would have never come to power and 9-11 would have never happened.
but the US would not be better off? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: ... |
|
|
Would the US be better off to torture people and have secret prisons as standard operating practice?
No. No secret prisons. No torture. Period. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
|
|
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Would the US be better off to torture people and have secret prisons as standard operating practice?
No. No secret prisons. No torture. Period. |
depends on the case.
if the US had thrown Bin Laden into a secret prison then 9-11 would not have happened.
If the US has tossed Khomeni into one no Iranian revolution and certainly no government like the one in power in Iran.
Bill Clinton's opinion was that the US could not convict Bin Laden in a US court.
Bill Clinton's National security adviser says something would have been worked out.
Which means something extra judicial.
Nowwhereman I have a question
It is okay for the US to use illegally obtained evidence from wiretaps against terrorists in a US court? Or should such evidence be thrown out? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
|
| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What these folks want to believe is that all of the US civil rights extend to the population of the world however US sovereignty extends only to it's borders. It's simple catch 22.
The problem being that congress has not the sack to implement policy that would allow the prosecution of the players who wish to bury the free world.
That being said there is a right way and a wrong way to prosecute those enemies, they should be defined a POWs snd held for the duration of he conflict. No judge no jury. Allow for prisoner exchanges back to country of origin. Purely administrative.
cbc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: ... |
|
|
| Quote: |
Nowwhereman I have a question
It is okay for the US to use illegally obtained evidence from wiretaps against terrorists in a US court? Or should such evidence be thrown out? |
No.
I believe the US government has more than adequate means to legally wiretap suspected terrorists.
If they don't I'm open to endorsing further wiretapping powers, but I pointedly believe that they should be on record as to why they were merited.
See: no-fly list |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
