| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Why not blame it on bigfoot? |
Are you in the business of giving him more of these ideas now...?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Seriously. Why not blame it on bigfoot? |
Why not? Ummmm ... because Bigfoot had diddly-squat to do with it.
HAARP is a much more likely suspect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haarp
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Mon May 07, 2007 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
Well, then. The gang is all here.
Adventurer posts a story on the declining honeybee population. BLT promptly cites "peak oil" and Homo sapiens's pending demise on our planet, Ddeubel preaches on the virtues of consuming "plant sperm," and now Igotthisguitar adds a reference to an X-Files-like military-research program somewhere in Alaska. |
And you too are here buzzing around.
Why not address the topic?
Thanks,
DD |
He likes dolls. Straw men, at that. Strange, no? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
All intensively commercially farmed animals are hit by disease at some point. Poultry farms and bird flu is a case in point: fish farms suffer high rates of stress too.
its unnatural. Animals and insects just weren't designed to function in massive monocultures to satisfy huge human demand for their product.
bees are not the only insect to pollinate plants. There are thousands upon thousands of wild and natural flies and insects birds etc that do the job. Problem is, we've killed them all with our pesticides and widescale land/habitat alteration.
Restore the land and its natural processes to their proper state, and you will have no more problems. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Julius wrote: |
| Restore the land and its natural processes to their proper state... |
But what does this mean and entail exactly?
PreNeolithic? No human "intervention?" Are human beings outside of or a part of "nature?"
What is your baseline? What is the land's "proper state?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
HAARP is a much more likely suspect.
|
Based on what evidence?
(I notice you never respond to that challenge other than to widen the conspiracy.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
What is your baseline? What is the land's "proper state?" |
Proper state = healthy. A functioning healthy environment with its natural processes intact. its most valuable (at least) habitats and ecosystems undamaged.
If you think of the world as a human body- then you need to cut out the smoking, cut out the stress, the chemicals. protect the operating systems- heart, lungs, brain, etc. The earth has checks and balances, natural systems that regulate the water cycle, climate, etc. They are ecosystems like lakes, rivers, coastal zoones, oceans, forests, rainforests, glaciers, swamps, peatlands, reefs, moors, heaths, wetland, etc. Them and the array of organisms in them act together to keep the earth running in a healthy way.
At the moment, they are haemhorraging badly after decades of abuse and over exploitation.
In many places we need to declare no take zones to allow the seas to recover. We need to restore the natural coastlines and their drainage systems of marshes a nd rivers. etc etc. It wasn't broken before, but we tried to "fix it".
And there will still be more than enough space left over to devote to agriculture. There is easily enough food to feed everyone. Everyone can have enough. Just, some countries must stop consuming 20 X more than they need. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Julius wrote: |
Proper state = healthy. A functioning healthy environment with its natural processes intact. its most valuable (at least) habitats and ecosystems undamaged.
|
That's a rather fuzzy definition. Your unhealthy is my healthy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Anyone know how quickly bee numbers can recover? Would seem to be a key question. Superceding might be a simple answer to the problem, no? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| As I know Killer Bees are doing great nowadays this off course is not good news however. The Killer Bees seem to be resistant to disease . I wonder if it weren't possible to genetically engineer honey bees by mixing them with some of the traits of the killer bees. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| As I know Killer Bees are doing great nowadays this off course is not good news however. The Killer Bees seem to be resistant to disease . I wonder if it weren't possible to genetically engineer honey bees by mixing them with some of the traits of the killer bees. |
No one is raising killer bees  I think it's a matter of farming practices, "hive hygiene". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee"]
| Quote: |
| As I know Killer Bees are doing great nowadays this off course is not good news however. |
Africanised bees also produce honey and pollinate plants..
| Quote: |
| The Killer Bees seem to be resistant to disease . |
Why would this be a bad thing? I assumed a "super-bee" is what we're after, no?
| Quote: |
| I wonder if it weren't possible to genetically engineer honey bees by mixing them with some of the traits of the killer bees. |
Already the majority of commercial bees in the US have hybridised with killer bees.
Forget the hollywood "killer bee" BS, africanised bees are also good commercially-only diff is that their behaviour is a touch more aggressive. If handled and managed differently, they still are very useful commercially.
If its simple pollination you're after rather than honey production as a bonus sideline, then agriculture in the US needs to become much more eco friendly.
For example, the typical American wheatfield below is a vast scale monoculture, an ecological desert. There are no surviving insects to do pollination. The farmer relies on his hives to do the job. But of course relying on one unnaturally managed, mass-produced insect species is dangerous. Disease strikes and you are left in trouble.
US monoculture: a barren wasteland.
Instead, they should divide up fields with fallow lay by areas of natural vegetation and habitat. Let the insects and the birds- all the creatures that usually do pollination, return. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Julius wrote: |
Instead, they should divide up fields with fallow lay by areas of natural vegetation and habitat. Let the insects and the birds- all the creatures that usually do pollination, return. |
How do you propose we get private land owners to pass on a profitable use of their land and return it to this state? I think free pizza machines would be a pretty great thing, but I don't see that happening. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mindmetoo wrote: |
How do you propose we get private land owners to pass on a profitable use of their land and return it to this state? I think free pizza machines would be a pretty great thing, but I don't see that happening. |
You really should do some reading and catch up with the issues and what has been developed in this area over the past 10 years. This is old news, not something new-its just that the Americans have been really slow in following the environmental progress and awareness in Europe. You appear very cynical but I think its simply a lack of knowledge on your part.
Organic farming is booming in Britain & Europe.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bigidea/stories/s1554631.htm
Beneficial insects in agriculture
"Encouraging bumblebee pollination of your crops is a very effective natural way to increase both the fruit yield and the size of the crop."
"The benefits upon the crop are being noticed, while the creation of beetle banks is both simple and inexpensive and doesn�t interfere with our growers� normal farming practices".
http://www.organicpathways.co.nz/business/story/130.html
There are a whole range of methods which basically lets nature work with you to increase productivity and quality rather than working against nature at great expense and environmental damage and a cocktail of poisons.
Your mistake no.1: assuming organic farming is unprofitable 2) exagerating about the steps needed. When i said lay-by, I meant farmers allow relatively small fallow strips of land to grow up along the edges of fields to encourage natural insect populations which pollinate.
Forgive me but we have 2 americans (you and Joo rip) that both show the ignorance of environmental issues that typifies your nation. Maybe when Oil companies stop censoring what goes in your ears you will start knowing what the rest of the world has come to appreciate: a healthy natural environment is a productive one.In any case if your precious bees die out you will have no choice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Julius wrote: |
| There are a whole range of methods which basically lets nature work with you to increase productivity and quality rather than working against nature at great expense and environmental damage and a *beep* of poisons. |
What poisons are you talking about?
| Quote: |
| Your mistake no.1: assuming organic farming is unprofitable |
Strawman. I never said that. If organic farming is more profitable than methods currently in use, farmers will move to that. Time will tell.
You stated:
| Quote: |
| Restore the land and its natural processes to their proper state, and you will have no more problems. |
Clearly private land owners are not going to do that out of the goodness of their hearts. I was simply asking how you can get private land owners to do this. If what you claim is judged more profitable, then such changes will be implemented. If not, then I don't see that happening.
| Quote: |
Forgive me but we have 2 americans (you and Joo rip) that both show the ignorance of environmental issues that typifies your nation.
|
If by Americans you mean "North Americans" then yes, we are both North Americans. If by American you mean "citizen of the USA" then you make an unwarranted assumption. I'm Canadian. However, our citizenship and your generalization matter as much as the price of tea in China.
| Quote: |
| Maybe when Oil companies stop censoring what goes in your ears you will start knowing what the rest of the world has come to appreciate: a healthy natural environment is a productive one.In any case if your precious bees die out you will have no choice. |
What leads you to believe oil companies are censoring or impeding the popular dissemination of news about organic farming techniques? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
