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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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 Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Daskalos: do you have any examples, any examples at all, of American police or other law-enforcement authorities citing or arresting gays or heterosexuals for violating any of these laws...ever? How about the even-less-likely possibility that any jury or judge convicted and sentenced anyone for same...? Also, which states are you referencing exactly? |
Would two cases that made it to the Supreme Court in the last 21 years count as "any cases ever?" Bowers v. Hardwick (1986) upheld a state's right to criminalize homosexual sodomy, mostly on the grounds that so many people had found it icky for so long. Lawrence v. Texas reversed that ruling and, just three years ago, struck down all sodomy laws in the United States.
| Wikipedia Summary wrote: |
Same-sex marriage
Performed nationwide in
Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Where is the rest of Western Europe, Daskalos? Where are Britain, France, Germany, and Italy? Where are Finnland, Sweden, and Norway for that matter? Do they persecute and oppress their gays, too...? |
Finland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Slovenia, the UK, France, Portugal, Switzerland, Iceland, Germany, Denmark and Luxembourg all have domestic partnership/civil union laws that are virtually marriage in all but name.
| Quote: |
Debate in other countries and regions
Argentina
Australia
Austria
China
Estonia
France
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
New Zealand
Portugal
Romania
Sweden
Taiwan
United Kingdom
United States: CA, CT, MD, NY, NJ, OR, RI, VT, WA |
I only pasted this to say that, aside from those US states listed here, virtually all the rest have voter-enacted prohibitions, in some cases written into the constitution, against same-sex marriage or other such arrangements. And to take the opportunity to point out that the only federal law granting freedom from discrimination was enacted by Bill Clinton and only applies to non-military-federal employees. In a majority of states it is still perfectly legal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, because non-civil servants have no federal protection, because members of Congress from the hayseed states know they'd be voted out of office if they supported non-discrimination legislation, because the good people of the hayseed states are too sexually uptight.
I don't make the claim, Gopher, that gay rights law is directly equatable to sexually repressed societies, but some correlation seems clear, doesn't it?
I do like how you make pockets of the US stand in for other sovereign nations. That US map to me looks pretty much like the left coast and Northeast, hardly a surprise, but we've covered this ground. The Western Europe map has only one or two blank spots on it that don't have some partnership/marriage law, and even in those blank spots, it is illegal to otherwise discriminate. And since the OP likened America to WESTERN EUROPE, that's where I'm keeping my end of this discussion.
And this really is, now, the end of my part of this discussion, one in which I found you to be far more than usually unable to stay focused on what we were talking about. I invite you to ask yourself why that was.
das
edit: "struck down all sodomy" to "struck down all sodomy laws" |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Daskalos: do you have any examples, any examples at all, of American police or other law-enforcement authorities citing or arresting gays or heterosexuals for violating any of these laws...ever? How about the even-less-likely possibility that any jury or judge convicted and sentenced anyone for same...? Also, which states are you referencing exactly? |
Would two cases that made it to the Supreme Court in the last 21 years count as "any cases ever?" Bowers v. Hardwick (1986) upheld a state's right to criminalize homosexual sodomy, mostly on the grounds that so many people had found it icky for so long. Lawrence v. Texas reversed that ruling and, just three years ago, struck down all sodomy laws in the United States. |
That is fine. And not surprising -- as I already showed, America is on the cutting-edge of this.
I asked about law-enforcement activities, persecution and oppression, however: arrests, convictions,and prison sentences. Got any?
| daskalos wrote: |
| That US map to me looks pretty much like the left coast and Northeast... |
Probably comparable in numbers to each Western-European state you mentioned, if not many combinations of them.
Why do you not ask yourself why you are so inclined to minimize their significance when discussing "America?" Why does America's largest state and home to over thirty-three million Americans mean less to you than a state like Alabama?
Also, gets a little tiring hearing people cite what they imagine Western Europe to be as an instrument to shame America. I always thought that taking one cultural standard, elevating it to universalism, and then using it to compare, shame, or outright bash others for failing to measure up was "ethnocentric" or worse: "racist."
Whoever voted and ratified this assumption, Daskalos? that we should all be like the Western Europeans, or that leftists have it right while conservatives are wrong? How can we create such a framework and self-righteously generalize and conclude "America is so sexually-repressed?" Or "the people of the hayseed states are too sexually uptight?"
And how is their sexuality your business, Daskalos?
Because the only thing I see here is another angry leftist and homosexual, unhappy that everything has not gone his way, and therefore intent to denounce the entire nation as "sexually-repressed" -- or, indeed, whatever other insult/judgment you would like to hurl our way.
Lo que sea. As I said, above, Daskalos: if you truly feel that it is so bad, that constructive-criticism will not help, and only angry denouncements are appropriate, please feel free to immigrate to the Western-European country of your choice and live there. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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I never knew America was sexually repressed.
I only spent a few weeks there (very great weeks) but all the American girls I've been close to have been great in bed!
Shout out to the American women! Keep doing what you're doing baby, oh yeah! |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Why is America so sexually repressed? |
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| nateium wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| nateium wrote: |
Why is this even warrant a discussion? "Who cares?" EXACTLY!
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Haha. Obviously you do. |
I care about whankers perpetuating stupid generalizations about Americans, not the the sexual exploits of some politician... |
Are you calling me a w@nker dear? It's not standard practice to call we women w@nkers. Try gusset typist, or kitkat shuffler... |
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whatthefunk
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Location: Dont have a clue
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| you people are clearly not thinking properly. how can people raise children in a good, christian way with all this sex going on? america was built upon the fundementals of freedom, no? then how come i cant walk ten feet without some reference to sex? there is no freedom in that. freedom has left us when the rights of a few sexed-up freaks overrule the rights of youngsters. what we need is more restrictions and more laws so that people can raise their children in a safe, sex-free environment. please, people...think of the children. the children are the future and they deserve all the freedom we can give them. |
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Hamburglar
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
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I still haven't really seen anyone say actually HOW america is sexually repressed.
Want to know the BIG SECRET about the Clinton scandal? It wasn't the blowjob you morons. It was the enemies of Clinton using any angle they could get to get him in trouble. They really didn't "care" that he got a blowjob - they cared that he made a mistake and everyon knew about it and they wanted to take advantage.
As for "sexual repression" don't confuse your inability to get laid in America as evidence of repression. Go to a party. I'm pretty sure we invented the Wet T shirt contest and jello wrestling, and I've been witness to plenty of that in my short time on earth.
OH NOS! We don't get naked at the beach! I really don't give a shit. If you guys are SOOO liberated why can't you just go naked on the street?
Why can't I wear shorts and sandals in Europe without being glared at? Oh, because you guys must be fashion-repressed or something.
I hear all this crap about America being this land of crazy Christian windbags who hate sex but living there I haven't really encountered many of them. I am sure they are more common in the rural farmy areas of Iowa and Kansas but guess what? Tourists don't go there so they will never see them. They also tend not to travel abroad anyway so they are effectively hidden from everyone's gaze.
I don't know if sexual repression means not being promiscuous but I guess you can believe that if you want. Whatever makes you feel better on the Sunday morning waking up next to a stranger. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamburglar wrote: |
I don't know if sexual repression means not being promiscuous but I guess you can believe that if you want. Whatever makes you feel better on the Sunday morning waking up next to a stranger. |
Now my little chimp, sexual liberation doesn't necessary entail behaving like a little bonobo. If life with a certain playmate feels sufficiently satisfying, why keep shopping around? |
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Hamburglar
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Hamburglar wrote: |
I don't know if sexual repression means not being promiscuous but I guess you can believe that if you want. Whatever makes you feel better on the Sunday morning waking up next to a stranger. |
Now my little chimp, sexual liberation doesn't necessary entail behaving like a little bonobo. If life with a certain playmate feels sufficiently satisfying, why keep shopping around? |
I agree with you. I'm just not really noticing all this sexual repression.
A little known fact about the USA is that even with sodomy laws no one is ever going to find out you love it in the butt unless you do it in front of a police officer and then he will arrest you for a different crime entirely.
For all this BS about sodomy laws that everyone keeps harping on I'd like to invite Rationality over here and see who can produce a list of people actually ARRESTED and JAILED for consensual sodomy? Yeah. Tons of them out there. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamburglar wrote: |
| ...I'd like to invite Rationality over here and see who can produce a list of people actually ARRESTED and JAILED for consensual sodomy? |
Already asked and watched as these self-described critics simply ignored the question and moved on to other allegations. |
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cosmo
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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http://news.scotsman.com/edinburgh.cfm?id=788432007
Breastfeeding 'too controversial' for city venues
HEALTH workers today claimed breastfeeding in public is "too controversial" for some city shops and cafes.
A survey carried out in Leith found a number of business owners had removed stickers advertising "breastfeeding welcome here" from their windows.
Nearly all the traders had originally agreed to display the stickers, but most then vanished within a fortnight. A variety of explanations were offered to the Evening News - including one shop blaming a window cleaner.
Queen Margaret University public health student Victoria Adelesi said: "I went to local businesses and organisations with sit-in facilities to see who would be willing to display stickers promoting breastfeeding.
Graham Russell, chairman of the Federation of Small Businesses in Edinburgh, said breastfeeding in public should be accepted, although he would not advocate putting up stickers.
"Unfortunately, in our current climate, I think this could attract voyeurs," he said.
"As a nation, the British are not grown-up enough when it comes to our bodies, so I would not put up a sign." |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Hamburglar wrote: |
| ...I'd like to invite Rationality over here and see who can produce a list of people actually ARRESTED and JAILED for consensual sodomy? |
Already asked and watched as these self-described critics simply ignored the question and moved on to other allegations. |
| Quote: |
In Lawrence vs. Texas, two gay men say the state of Texas deprived them of privacy rights and equal protection under the law when they were arrested in 1998 for having sex in a Houston home.
A neighbor had reported a "weapons disturbance" at the home of John G. Lawrence, and when police arrived they only found two men having sex. Lawrence and another man, Tyron Garner, were held overnight in jail and later fined $200 each for violating the state's Homosexual Conduct law. The neighbor was later convicted of filing a false police report.
All sodomy laws in the US are now unconstitutional and unenforceable when applied to non-commercial consenting adults in private. |
Wow, only 30 or 40 years behind the cutting edge on this one small facet of the greater issue of sexual repression. |
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Nicco61
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want to talk about it.  |
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Why is America so sexually repressed? |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| nateium wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| nateium wrote: |
Why is this even warrant a discussion? "Who cares?" EXACTLY!
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Haha. Obviously you do. |
I care about whankers perpetuating stupid generalizations about Americans, not the the sexual exploits of some politician... |
Are you calling me a w@nker dear? It's not standard practice to call we women w@nkers. Try gusset typist, or kitkat shuffler... |
 ok I'll try to remember that. Thanks |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if America is sexually suppressed but I certainly think some are so absorbed with appearance. I just saw this Q&A on Dear Abby and thought I'd toss it on the fire which is this thread
DEAR ABBY: A couple of weeks ago, some friends and I visited a family friend's niece who had recently had a baby girl. While we were visiting, we noticed that the baby was hungry.
Being a good mom, the new mother unbuttoned her shirt, took off her bra, and breast-fed the baby right in front of us. Abby, was it right or wrong of her to expose her b reasts in front of visitors when breast-feeding the child? -- RACHEL IN PHILADELPHIA
DEAR RACHEL: Breast-feeding a baby is normal and natural. However, removing one's bra to do it should not have been necessary. There are special nursing bras that allow the mother to uncover one breast at a time for the baby to nurse.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucda/20070523/lf_ucda/surgeongeneralcallspublictocombatunderagedrinking;_ylt=AkTnrTcuQxZ3Pve4PLwAAdq2GL8C
Chalk up what happened to the young mother's inexperience. And after all, it was done in the privacy of her home -- not in a public place.
I just can't but wonder why is it a big deal if you see a boob full of milk while the mom is trying to feed her kid? God knows if this same moron would be in a frenzy righteous indignation if she bottle feed the baby instead  |
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