Korean Job Discussion Forums

[rocklee]

I saw this amazing video of a Korean schoolgirl being bullied :

http://mplay.donga.com/dkbnews/2006/10/123/10t.wmv

I've seen bullying of all kinds back when I was working in Japan but have never seen anything like this. Would you have intervened? Just listening to it was brutal. It was also as if the victim had no choice but to go through with it until they were finished. Apparently there was more in the video but was edited out.

[oldfatfarang]

I'd have certainly intervened and been kicking butts and taking names.
However, I think this behavior is pretty standard in Oriental societies. If the kids see the adults doing this (every day on TV), and in life (seniors bullying juniors etc), it's just normal behavior for them. Is it 'the law of the jungle' or the 'tall nail being hammered down'?

[Yu_Bum_suk]

It's just horrible how they never seem to give up and the girl being abused does nothing to resist. What's particularly sad is how she was probably with the other girls in a private location because she had no social circle and wanted to be part of one. I hope the ringleader of that got kicked out of her school and sent to another one where she has no status in the pecking order.

I wouldn't say that's 'normal' behaviour in an 'Oriental' society at all. I've never seen or heard of anything like that at my school of 500+. Yes, there's a pecking order and some of the play-fighting gets a bit rough and is used to stress dominance, but never anything like that; in fact I've never seen or heard of a serious attempt at violence at my school, whereas I doubt there are many secondary school teachers in the west who could say that.

[oldfatfarang]

At my old Hagwon I've seen young/small boys hiding behind 1/2 closed doors. When I asked why, they said, "older boys from my school come to this Hagwon". They were, in effect, very frightened of being hit or humiliated by these 'older' boys.

Similary, at my new city public Middle school there are teachers on the entrance gates "to stop bullying (whanja????) from students from the adjacent Technical High and Ordinary High schools".

I also note the clear glass doors to the boys toilets in our school. A sure sign that bullying is an ongoing problem (and we have anti-bullying announcements on the school PA and on a banner outside the school gate).

There were a lot of kids crying at my school in the first 2 weeks. Some were being 'beaten into line' by teachers (I heard the beating and cries of pain), but another teacher told me that there is always a Whanja problem in Korean schools.

And what's with these Korean teachers walking around with cut down broom handles and canes etc. To me that shows societal sanctioned bullying (at best) and at worst, societal sanctioned child abuse.

Korean bullying isn't only physical abuse. My observations of Korean society show verbal bullying is an inherent part of Korean (perhaps Oriental) society. I see this everywhere I go. Seniors demanding respect at the supermarket (old men shouting at young male clerks). Older men shouting and abusing their wives in public areas (railways stations). An older lady shouting abuse at a young girl supermarket clerk etc,etc, etc.

Just 2 days ago I passed a police station and saw 3 officers shouting at a group of police (cadets) who were being made to perform 'torture' positions outside the police station. One of my co-teachers punishes my lovely students on a daily basis for God-knows-what infraction of the Oriental hierarchical system.

And lets not even get started on Korean management techniques ... My Head Teacher can't wait to remind me who's higher in the system if she thinks I've forgotten to turn off a light or leave a window open.

The list goes on and on. I think Koreans are bullies at heart - and their society condones it.

[yawarakaijin]

I taught ESL in Canada and I can tell you, the mentality even follows them to Canada. 24 year old students beating the youngest and forcing him into doing all the cleaning of their apartment. One young man, noticably the less macho of the group, often came to class with bruises on his face and cut lips. When I confronted the offenders and told them that in Canada they could be charged with assault and possibly deported for physically attacking another person they f#cking laughed right in my face as if it was some kind of joke. "What? I can be jailed for physically assaulting someone? What kind of country is this?" was bascially their response. It was utterly disgusting. No doubt bullying occurs in every country but it is the fact that it is socially acceptable to these kids that really turned my stomach.

After teaching for 5 years in Canada I have to say that it was really only the Korean students I developed a distaste for. Not based on one experience in particular but a multitude of unbelievable events.

Seriously, for the life of me, I can't imagine why anyone want to teach there. Is the money really that good? Can you really save so much money. Granted, people bitch and moan about only the bad things they experience in country but take a look at the message boards! Compare the worst that people have to say about Japan versus the worst people have to say about Korea. Jesus! Men beating their women in the street!? In 5 years here I have not even seen a man raise his voice to a woman in public. I just don't get why anyone would choose to be there.

Yes I know, the Japanese are just more devious about it. They beat their women in private and are even more racist than Koreans, they just hide it better.

[Alyallen]

Oh my FUCKING GOD!

That is so terrible!

I can't believe that this is what Confucius had in mind. Or did he?

At what point do we blame the society and not Confucius? Or is it a horrid blend of the two?

*Honest question. Not ripping on the culture...honest!

[oldfatfarang]

I'd better put my comments on Korean bullying in perspective. I grew up in a redneck timber town where school bullying was commonplace.

I was the small boy and a teacher's son. So I got plenty of attention from older school thugs. And from sadistic teachers. Violence was a way of life, and it was accepted. We were being socialised into being 'men'. Thankfully, this behaviour is simply not acceptable now. Nowadays bullying/violence would get a teacher fired and a student expelled.

Adult violence was limited to drunks knocking each others' teeth out on saturday night. The hierarchical child/adult bullying structures in Oriental society wasn't practiced (or socially acceptable). Anybody trying to lord it over another adult would have been told to "F.. Off". Bullying people younger than you was seen as cowardice (and rightly so).

At home I've never seen what I've seen in Korea (a girl lying submissively on the ground and a boy with his foot on her head). And locals just looking on or ignoring it. Call it sexist, but onlooking adults would have taught that boy a lesson in manners (with more violence). But evolving society's attitudes means that behaviour just doesn't seem possible now.

To me Korean society has a very long way to go before it can be deemed a democratic and free society, i.e., a society where people of all ages are entitled to live their lives without threat of intimidation or violence.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I won't deny that some of the above doesn't happen, but I think you guys are really painting too bleak a picture. In Canada I went to a "good" private school that regularly expelled trouble makers (or just wouldn't accept their applications for the following year if they had been really troublesome) and there were still more real fights and malicious bullying, even amongst the girls, than I've seen at my school in Korea. To suggest that Korea is so remarkable in this respect just seems a bit odd.

[Alyallen]

[khyber]

If you go to youtube you can see video after video of after school fights but I'm not sure if you can see anything like this.
Not saying one is better or worse though.


I think that something has to be said for the parents of these girls. Assuming their parents saw this video, how do you think they reacted? It seems that parents have the ability to teach children to act in an appropriate way; whether it is culturally relevant (right) or not.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[Alyallen]

[Adventurer]

She looked very terrified, humiliated, and they not only beat her, but they sexually molested her. Of course, the girl was crying, but I guess it's a mentality where some Koreans believe you must succumb to the older wolf or the head wolf of the pack. I don't know enough about the culture and bullying, but I did read that 69% of Koreans said they would intervene if they saw bullying and 31% said they would. I don't know about stats, but my students told me people usually don't intervene when they see bullying in school. It's not their problem they think, I suppose. Some are surprised that many Western people sometimes would intervene and stop a fight.

If I were the father of one of these bullies, I would be extremely angry, and I would made sure that my child never repeated such behaviour.

[oldfatfarang]

I've just seen a classic case of Korean secondary socialisation in bullying.

While walking in the corridor I saw one of those 'butter wouldn't melt in my mouth' sweet Korean lady teachers, beating a student with a cut-down broom handle. No prizes for guessing what lesson that kid was getting (big people bully small people). And she was beating him in front of a whole corridor of students (so they also got the lesson). A long way to go -- a very long way to go.

[Yu_Bum_suk]