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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Lets just hope this is true. |
Let's hope for the sake of my good friend's Libyan family that it is not. He's often remarked that at least while Qaddafi is the undisputed leader, there is no likelyhood of greater bloodshed. |
Libya is one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet. You think that regime is a good thing? |
Add another one to Big Bird's Honor Roll: Chavez, Qadaffi, Castro, Hezbollah.
These are people Big Bird admires and looks up to. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Lets just hope this is true. |
Let's hope for the sake of my good friend's Libyan family that it is not. He's often remarked that at least while Qaddafi is the undisputed leader, there is no likelyhood of greater bloodshed. |
Libya is one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet. You think that regime is a good thing? |
It is indeed a repressive regime. I know Libyans who even in Korea never criticised Qaddifi openly, incase they were informed on. However, what a Libyan friend of mine says (in a nutshell) is this. He's been in power for 40 years now, and so most ordinary folk know how to survive in the system and keep their noses clean and out of trouble. He made a pig's ear of the country, but now in his twilight years, people think he's worried about his legacy and wants to do some good for his country...and has been making an effort of late. Libyans I know are quite optimistic about the future. People who would have loved to seen him ousted before, are looking nervously at what has happened in Iraq, concerned that once Qaddafi's gone, chaos could take hold in Libya. Qaddafi has done his best to keep terrorists and jihadists out of Libya, and the people feel that, for the moment, they are safe from the kind of crap that took hold in Algeria. The longer he stays in power, the better for the country's stability and economy. The Libyans I've spoken to are under no illusion that once Qaddafi's gone they'll get anything much better. Better the Devil you know. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I understand what you are saying. However this is what I think Khaddafy is about. Sometimes he can't hide what he really is.
Libya urges Bulgaria blood money
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President Parvanov has been to visit the nurses in Libya
Libya has renewed its demands for the Bulgarian government to pay compensation to ensure the release of five nurses detained since 1999. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4162286.stm
| Quote: |
| In an address at the end of last year, Qadhafi said the six medics would only be released if a Libyan national serving a prison sentence in Scotland for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing were set free and if Libya received financial compensation for the HIV infections. |
http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/features/2007/01/19/feature-01 |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Big Bird wrote:
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| It is indeed a repressive regime. I know Libyans who even in Korea never criticised Qaddifi openly, incase they were informed on. However, what a Libyan friend of mine says (in a nutshell) is this. He's been in power for 40 years now, and so most ordinary folk know how to survive in the system and keep their noses clean and out of trouble. He made a pig's ear of the country, but now in his twilight years, people think he's worried about his legacy and wants to do some good for his country...and has been making an effort of late. Libyans I know are quite optimistic about the future. People who would have loved to seen him ousted before, are looking nervously at what has happened in Iraq, concerned that once Qaddafi's gone, chaos could take hold in Libya. Qaddafi has done his best to keep terrorists and jihadists out of Libya, and the people feel that, for the moment, they are safe from the kind of crap that took hold in Algeria. The longer he stays in power, the better for the country's stability and economy. The Libyans I've spoken to are under no illusion that once Qaddafi's gone they'll get anything much better. Better the Devil you know. |
Now that you frame it this way, I tend to agree with you. [Is that bells I hear pealing out a moment of concord?} |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| Why? Col. Qaddafi is a good man, if a bit idiosyncratic. I'm sure he wouldn't wish a blood clot on you. |
No, he wouldn't wish something like a blood clot on any infidel. He would wish something much more terrible. Qaddafi a good man...what a load of crap. |
Libya is a socialist state. What does that have to do with being an infidel. Islamists are hunted down there. He has his own special calendar and calls Islamists "The lost dogs". I don't personally like the man. He is a dictator, but he is no worse than most leaders in that region. At least, Libya is in better shape than Algeria. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
I understand what you are saying. However this is what I think Khaddafy is about. Sometimes he can't hide what he really is.
Libya urges Bulgaria blood money
| Quote: |
President Parvanov has been to visit the nurses in Libya
Libya has renewed its demands for the Bulgarian government to pay compensation to ensure the release of five nurses detained since 1999. |
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Yeah, this is really awful. I thought about teaching there once, but that made me think twice. However, I'm not sure how much of that is due to Qaddafi. I understand that this was done by the government of Benghazi, which (from what I understand from my discussions with Libyans - I may have this wrong and feel free to correct me) is a kind of rival to Tripoli, and rather makes Qaddifi nervous. He has to sort of placate them to keep them in check. But his son made it very clear that these nurses (and the Palestinian doctor) should be released. I doubt he would be allowed to say that if he didn't have his father's tacit support. And it's this kind of situation that suggests to me that once Qaddafi is gone, there might be an ugly power struggle in that country. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Bigbird
these are Khaffays words.
an address at the end of last year, Qadhafi said the six medics would only be released if a Libyan national serving a prison sentence in Scotland for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing were set free and if Libya received financial compensation for the HIV infections.
And Khaffafy is to Libya what Kim Il Sung was to North Korea.
With a wave of his hand Khaddafy could set them free. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, Daffy Duck is suing a Palestinian newspaper for falsely reporting him being in a coma.
The Libyan leader, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, has said he will sue a Palestinian news agency for making false claims about his health.
The Libyan leader was visibly annoyed with the false claims as he pointed the finger at the Arab world and demanded legal justice.
"The Arabs and those who control them are behind this. But we are going to sue this news agency. From now on, no-one will lie and get away with it. They should face justice.
"We should fire at those who fire at us and we should consider ourselves the enemy of those who say they are our enemy," he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6656551.stm
[Kaddafi is not viewing himself as an Arab and merely as a North African it appears.] |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Joo Rip wrote:
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these are Khaffays words.
an address at the end of last year, Qadhafi said the six medics would only be released if a Libyan national serving a prison sentence in Scotland for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing were set free and if Libya received financial compensation for the HIV infections |
Did he really say that? (I wouldn't be surprised but do you have a link?)
Big Bird:
Good point about the "twin capital" problem, which most passing observers of the scene are not even aware of.
My father believed Qaddafi was a budding megalomaniac (visions of grandeur, almost a Libyan mirror of Mussolini, whose winter palace was outside Tripoli) when they crossed paths in 1969 just before the coup against King Idris at the so-called "Purple Palace" on the sea.
At one point I wantd to teach there too but it's still volatile. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Big Bird wrote:
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| It is indeed a repressive regime. I know Libyans who even in Korea never criticised Qaddifi openly, incase they were informed on. However, what a Libyan friend of mine says (in a nutshell) is this. He's been in power for 40 years now, and so most ordinary folk know how to survive in the system and keep their noses clean and out of trouble. He made a pig's ear of the country, but now in his twilight years, people think he's worried about his legacy and wants to do some good for his country...and has been making an effort of late. Libyans I know are quite optimistic about the future. People who would have loved to seen him ousted before, are looking nervously at what has happened in Iraq, concerned that once Qaddafi's gone, chaos could take hold in Libya. Qaddafi has done his best to keep terrorists and jihadists out of Libya, and the people feel that, for the moment, they are safe from the kind of crap that took hold in Algeria. The longer he stays in power, the better for the country's stability and economy. The Libyans I've spoken to are under no illusion that once Qaddafi's gone they'll get anything much better. Better the Devil you know. |
Now that you frame it this way, I tend to agree with you. [Is that bells I hear pealing out a moment of concord?} |
I just saw pigs fly past my window! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Is that bells I hear pealing out a moment of concord...? |
Not quite.
What you hear is Big_Bird talking like a realist ["best to deal with the devil that you know..."] -- although pointing this out to her might just induce an apoplectic episode.
In any case, Big_Bird: here is my preemptive response to your denial: "yes." |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher:
I suspect Big Bird is more of a realist than she herself cares to acknowledge at this juncture. Give her a few years to ripen on the vine and she'll become a quite tolerable liberal.  |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
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[quote="stevemcgarrett"]Joo Rip wrote:
| Quote: |
these are Khaffays words.
an address at the end of last year, Qadhafi said the six medics would only be released if a Libyan national serving a prison sentence in Scotland for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing were set free and if Libya received financial compensation for the HIV infections |
Did he really say that? (I wouldn't be surprised but do you have a link?)
| Quote: |
In an address at the end of last year, Qadhafi said the six medics would only be released if a Libyan national serving a prison sentence in Scotland for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing were set free and if Libya received financial compensation for the HIV infections. |
http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/features/2007/01/19/feature-01 |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Bigbird
these are Khaffays words.
an address at the end of last year, Qadhafi said the six medics would only be released if a Libyan national serving a prison sentence in Scotland for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing were set free and if Libya received financial compensation for the HIV infections. |
That's not necessarily incompatible with my understanding that it is really the Benghazi lot that are behind it. Just thinking aloud here, but perhaps Qaddafi, despite not being the reason these guys are in gaol, feels the need to look as if he has more control than he does?
| Quote: |
And Khaffafy is to Libya what Kim Il Sung was to North Korea.
With a wave of his hand Khaddafy could set them free. |
I've yet to be convinced of that, Joo. Perhaps he can set them free, but perhaps he feels the political cost to himself would be too dangerous. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Gopher:
I suspect Big Bird is more of a realist than she herself cares to acknowledge at this juncture. Give her a few years to ripen on the vine and she'll become a quite tolerable liberal. |
Hohoho.  Are you two happy now?
On the one hand, I don't think we should interfere too much with the leadership of other nations - i.e. it's not up to us to instigate regime change - as we ourselfves are not going to pay the full cost in bloodshed. It's for the people who will be affected to decide if they want to make those sacrifices. However, I don't believe we should be installing and/or propping up ugly regimes either. |
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