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| Who am I? |
| I am a soul. |
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14% |
[ 3 ] |
| I am a biological machine. |
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42% |
[ 9 ] |
| I am sometimes a soul, sometines a machine. |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
| How the heck do I know? |
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23% |
[ 5 ] |
| Please God, enlighten me! |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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| Author |
Message |
Marc Ravalomanana
Joined: 15 May 2007
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 Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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What is the basis for these claims about the nature of the soul?
If the soul, or the rainbow that the pony farts out, is imperceptible to all but a select few, then it's unfalsifiable, and science need not bother with it. The pursuit of unfalsifiable claims and questions that can never be answered cannot add to our understanding of the world.
This also applies to the statement that there are "greater perspectives" we cannot access. Absolutely anything at all could be asserted under this umbrella. It's a very safe umbrella. Statements made under such an umbrella are forensically weak, and should be ignored by science. Far better to stick to claims that can be tested--and that you don't have to be somehow special to test. |
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MCSM
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: |
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There are many options missing. You are also doing your username a severe injustice by repeatedly referring to an "I" in your options.
Quackosophy. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Person, soul, bicohemical machine, spirit, human, meat driven by pulses of electricty etc... we are all of it..
It's all one and the same
laters |
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mikowee
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I am. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| There is a simple test for auras. Since auras supposedly rise a few inches above the head you can have the person hide behind a screen and another person detect their aura. Use several screens, do a test run where the person being tested is told where the people are(as to avoid later claims their powers aren't working) then one where they are not. This test is well known and fails the person being tested every time, although that doesn't stop them from giving excuses. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| arjuna wrote: |
On the other hand, qi/chi has a direct correspondence to a form of energy that is manipulable and perceptible by humans. The energy we call qi will cause changes in the processes of the world to generate movement of particles leading to �heat,� and other perceptions. �Energy� (that we use for daily living) that is not based on matter but on the free-form energy (such as qi) would be clean and without limit. This is the solution to our energy problem. Nikola Tesla and Wilhelm Reich have both identified and used them experimentally to generate movement. |
Good use your qi to heat a thermometer then go and claim your noble prize. Where does Tesla mention Qi?
| arjuna wrote: |
| You can consider the whole universe as conscious energy. There is differentiation in energy, and there are degrees of consciousness. The soul consciousness is at the upper limits and the consciousness of matter at the bottom. A soul is a fragment from the most highly conscious segment of the universe. I don�t know if these processes can be described adequately in physical terms and in human language. In physical terms, �conscious energy� is the most adequate term for the soul. The energy that a soul can manipulate, and a person can manipulate, would be at the very low end of the consciousness scale, close to matter but less restricted. |
Why do you believe this? There is no evidence the universe is conscious unless you consider yourself the universe made concious
| arjuna wrote: |
The consciousness of the body is limited by the function of the brain, which is really a very complex computer. The soul consciousness would be the guide, so to speak, as the person grows and becomes more self-conscious. Without the guiding of the soul, a person�s life would depend almost entirely on the circumstances and forces put on the person from �society.� The mind of the person has an interesting self-conscious aspect, but I would not describe a person without a soul as self-conscious. He/she would only appear to be so.
So, person and soul are not exactly equal. The more the person�s mind is able to understand the soul consciousness, the more his/her life would become aligned with all the great and wonderful things we talk about when we talk about life. How can it be otherwise? The soul came directly from the most highly conscious <blank> in the universe. |
How do you know this to be true?
and are you suggesting some people don't have souls? |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: Max Ehrmann |
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Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.
And please Wear Sunscreen
cbc |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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cbclark4,
Beautiful! - Thanks! |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| and are you suggesting some people don't have souls? |
What possible meaning can this question have for you?
You haven't even decided whether a soul is real or not.
Find out first, then see if there are persons without souls. |
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swetepete
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Location: a limp little burg
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Max Ehrmann |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.
And please Wear Sunscreen
cbc |
Nice. Where's that from? Is that yours, cbc? |
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swetepete
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Location: a limp little burg
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Re: the OP
"I yam what I yam, and that's all I yam."
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| arjuna wrote: |
| ED209 wrote: |
| and are you suggesting some people don't have souls? |
What possible meaning can this question have for you?
You haven't even decided whether a soul is real or not.
Find out first, then see if there are persons without souls. |
Sorry, from your writing I am a little confused.
Let me rephrase, do you believe that everyone has an eternal soul?
Also do you understand that aura detection and qi manipulation of the environment are testable claims that have so far failed?
No need to advance science to detect these false claims.
I don't claim to believe in souls, nothing has led me to believe in their existence. But I am interested in those that do believe.
Why do they believe?
Why do they claim it is beyond understanding?
Why do they then describe what the nature of a soul is? |
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Natalie
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Max Ehrmann |
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| swetepete wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.
And please Wear Sunscreen
cbc |
Nice. Where's that from? Is that yours, cbc? |
http://www.fleurdelis.com/desiderata.htm
Or you can Google "Desiderata".
I would choose that speech if I ever get that lead role in a cage.
The sunscreen comments comes from a circa '90s rip-update-ironic-iconic graduation speech song ad-infinitum.
Peace.
cbc |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Marc Ravalomanana wrote: |
What is the basis for these claims about the nature of the soul?
If the soul, or the rainbow that the pony farts out, is imperceptible to all but a select few, then it's unfalsifiable, and science need not bother with it. The pursuit of unfalsifiable claims and questions that can never be answered cannot add to our understanding of the world.
This also applies to the statement that there are "greater perspectives" we cannot access. Absolutely anything at all could be asserted under this umbrella. It's a very safe umbrella. Statements made under such an umbrella are forensically weak, and should be ignored by science. Far better to stick to claims that can be tested--and that you don't have to be somehow special to test. |
The problem with Karl Popper's argument for falsifiability, outlined above, is that it doesnt allow for possibility of major shift in paradigm. If we are continuosly accepting a narrow range of science that exists inside the scope of what can be considered falsifiable, new ideas not yet falsifiable have no chance to emerge -- ideas such as a metaphysically existing soul.
If we had listened to the falsifiability argument from the beginning of time, we'd still be living in a geo-centric solar system on a flat earth... because science at the time those beliefs were held had no means to prove otherwise using falsifiability.
Last edited by pest2 on Fri May 18, 2007 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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