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Salary Info, Rank, Ed. Workers 2,920,000 won/month
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| Did Koreans in Western countries have to get bashed in the head by American cops to get equal treatment under the law? |
Ummm... don't they already have it in North America? I do recall women and minorities in times previous indeed had to get their head bashed in to win equal treatment.
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| The best way to change things is to work hard, prove yourself, and become invaluable to your school, things Homer talked about. |
Sure.
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| Yet this doesnt work in korea most of the time because the Koreans dont seem to care about quality of education or experience. |
In our field, sure. But the jobs in our field are largely structured for BA holders with no teaching experience.
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| Why do Unis fire you after three years? Unis here are businesses. |
Harvard isn't a business? Universities don't fire you after 3 years. They don't renew your contract. Let's not use loaded terms. And you know that going in. Don't like it? Try a university in Thailand or the middle east. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
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Did Koreans in Western countries have to get bashed in the head by American cops to get equal treatment under the law? |
Absolutely not. It wouldn't matter if I integrated, spoke Korean and wore a track suit with flip-flops. I would still just be another foreigner.
There isn't even a way to say "non-Korean Korean." National identity is tied up with blood. It's a sad reaction to Japanese colonialism, but it's a fact of life.
I'm saying that Korea wants to do business with the West, demands access to our markets and educational systems and treats us as racially excluded from the higher levels of their society.
Racism is LAW in Korea. Foreigners are RACIALLY EXCLUDED from becoming full-time professors in Korea.
Canada hasn't had RACIALLY EXCLUSIVE LAWS since the head tax in the inter-war period and our bloody government had to apologize for it.
Racism in Korea, however, is just good politics.
You people who think that there's anything that can be done about it except wait for these children of Vietnamese brides to grow up are kidding yourselves.
Koreans want to the world to think they are ready for prime-time but refuse to get their minds out of 19th century Social Darwinism.
What's really so pathetic is that their notions of racial purity are actually European by way of Germany/Japan.
So, get a mushroom haircut, smoke thin little cigarettes, wear a black suit and suck air over your front teeth all you want. They'll still keep staring at the hair on your forearms. |
Right. I don't disagree in Korea you'll never be Korean. I'm guessing women who move to Saudi Arabia with their husbands who take jobs there probably have some issues too. Countries are different and not great like us. Thanks for the tip.
If that bothers you, you need to do something to change it or maybe leave. Go for it, tiger. |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Why do Unis fire you after three years? Unis here are businesses. |
Harvard isn't a business? Universities don't fire you after 3 years. They don't renew your contract. Let's not use loaded terms. And you know that going in. Don't like it? Try a university in Thailand or the middle east. |
Yeah, gotta agree... unis back in the USA are alot like a business -- at least insofar as funding goes. They get only 20-25% of thier funds from the Government and the rest comes from private grants, funds, and donations with "strings attached" to do specific kinds of research...
Plus, Unis are using alot of the same kind of marketing tactics to get enrollment up, and what's up with having to pay all that money to live in the dorm and then making that dorm residence mandatory for the first year..?
However, comparing employment in a University to employment in a private business is totally different. Uni Employees get to follow rules and guidelines of any other gov employees... many of which are actually set up to make working conditions better, not to increase profit. The pay in the University system, on the other hand... but if you want a nice job with a big office of your own with no more than 40 hours per week of work, unis are the way to go...
Since we're comparing it to Korea, though.. I dont know... how is working at a K Uni? Just asking. |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
If that bothers you, you need to do something to change it or maybe leave. Go for it, tiger. |
Most of us cant change it... Statistically, most of us leave after our 1 year contract is done because that's when we get our severance pay and air ticket. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| [. Public schools would rather have the foreigners sit alone in the office all day during vacations to get their money's worth, rather then let them take the time off like the Korean teachers. |
Some do, some don't.
And those that do, knew that going in. They could have always not signed or gone for a hakwon job. People are responsible for their own choices.
No one forced you on a plane to Korea.
No one forced you to sign a bad contract.
And no one is forcing you to stay here.
So stop complaining, it's your choice.
It's similar to sticking your hand repeatedly in a fire and whining "it hurts."
Stop sticking your hand in the fire then...how dumb is that? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
| Most of us cant change it... Statistically, most of us leave after our 1 year contract is done because that's when we get our severance pay and air ticket. |
We can change it, if we care to. But the vast majority of us don't care to make the effort. As you note, we're here for a very short period of time, unlike migrant workers who really did change the system. Unlike migrant workers, we can leave this blighted nation any time and return to nice lives where we can parlay our BA into jobs that offer, no doubt, superior levels of pay, coworker respect, benefits, and working hours. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Right. I don't disagree in Korea you'll never be Korean. I'm guessing women who move to Saudi Arabia with their husbands who take jobs there probably have some issues too. Countries are different and not great like us. Thanks for the tip
If that bothers you, you need to do something to change it or maybe leave. Go for it, tiger. |
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Sellout.
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It's similar to sticking your hand repeatedly in a fire and whining "it hurts."
Stop sticking your hand in the fire then...how dumb is that? |
Yes, but you're just talking about instant gratification. I get paid by Koreans, therefore Koreans are good. For a conservative, your morals are quite weak. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:11 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Pyongshin Sangja"]
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It's similar to sticking your hand repeatedly in a fire and whining "it hurts."
Stop sticking your hand in the fire then...how dumb is that? |
Yes, but you're just talking about instant gratification. I get paid by Koreans, therefore Koreans are good. For a conservative, your morals are quite weak. |
That makes absolutely no sense. No one is talking about instant gratification. I advised getting a PhD or at least a Master's and going back to the West. Hardly instant gratification. But keep babbling nonsense...it's easier than facing up to facts. Once again no one forced you to come here. Once again, no one is forcing you to stay here. For a supposedly educated university graduate your logic is quite weak. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
That makes absolutely no sense. No one is talking about instant gratification. I advised getting a PhD or at least a Master's and going back to the West. Hardly instant gratification. But keep babbling nonsense...it's easier than facing up to facts. Once again no one forced you to come here. Once again, no one is forcing you to stay here. For a supposedly educated university graduate your logic is quite weak. |
Why when he can continue to be a victim here? The man is keeping him down. Back in Canada or the USA he'd be the sole architect of his failure. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Why when he can continue to be a victim here? The man is keeping him down. Back in Canada or the USA he'd be the sole architect of his failure. |
That is pretty much right on target mindmetoo. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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All right, you ass-kissers. Keep renewing your visas. I guess racism is ok in your world as long as it's done by people that also pay you money.
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Back in Canada or the USA he'd be the sole architect of his failure. |
Failure? Did you just call me a failure, noob?
At least I don't wipe little kids' noses for a living. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
| All right, you ass-kissers. Keep renewing your visas. I guess racism is ok in your world as long as it's done by people that also pay you money. |
So you're going to not renew and go home? Stick it to the man? |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
All right, you ass-kissers. Keep renewing your visas. I guess racism is ok in your world as long as it's done by people that also pay you money.
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It's not cool to be a hypocrite.
One has to wonder what you are doing here then.
See this is the one flaw that destroys all the whiners' arguments about why Korea is so bad. If they keep coming back and staying here, common sense tells any rational person "Well it can't be that bad." |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
All right, you ass-kissers. Keep renewing your visas. I guess racism is ok in your world as long as it's done by people that also pay you money.
. |
It's not cool to be a hypocrite.
One has to wonder what you are doing here then.
See this is the one flaw that destroys all the whiners' arguments about why Korea is so bad. If they keep coming back and staying here, common sense tells any rational person "Well it can't be that bad." |
Wow. I cant believe that some of the posters here were born and raised in western liberal democracies.
I have been in Korea awhile. Yes I "keep coming back". I have saved a small fortune and had some great times here. But does that make Korean society any less racist and unfair. Should people who are content in their lives not acknowledge injustiuces and general racist bullshite.
Just because you have a girlfriend and disposable income fore the first time in your life doesnt mean you have to put on blinders and apologize when observing Korean society.
To be fair, when I was a head teacher at a crap hogwon, I saw the ridiculous and ignorant opinions, rerquests, and attitudes that many foreign teachers placed upon Korea. I know both sides. But this thread wasnt about that.
This thread was about long termers being able to receive the same deal that Korean educators get. And we cant. Period. No matter what we do.
The job market is just part of the frusratation for me. We come from countries that are generally nice places to live, work, and have families. The envy of the world. Koreans ( as well as others) have taken full advantage of western largesse. All I want is a little reciprocity and fairness.In my country Koreans can easily start businesses, send their kids to school, have their new borns become citizens, enter top notch universities. I cant even get a Dunkin Donuts point card here.
Ask Koreans why this difference is ok, and they say an influx of foreigners
would ruin Korean culture, whereas the USA has no culture to ruin. To this I say you can have your kimchee, atrocious behavior in public and that guy who twirls a ribbon from his head and I will take the US constitution, a general sense of fairness for all, the possibility of upward mobilty, and the moon landing any day of the week. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not cool to be a hypocrite. |
Unless you're the product of some other racially homogenous mono-cultural country, you're a hypocrite too. |
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