Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Cheonmunka]

I'm a freelancer. That's the only way I can get ahead. I am resident. A '거주'. I had a bit of a problem with Gepik a few years ago when I felt they were disinterested and non-comittal about paying a wage commensurate with my qualification as an NZ high school teacher. I got the run around by the office and managers.
Anyone, from where I stand, I cannot see how a wonomin teacher can in reality increase his/her levels of benefits in comparison with a Korean staff member without being part of the tenured staff.
My wife's friend has been a teacher 10 years in elementary. She earns three million per month. I have been teaching here nearly ten years. The Gepik etc programs are new but I cannot see how one could stay with the same organisation for that length of time without any problems occuring requiring restructuring or even bankruptcy etc. Then, when one does move to another organisation it could almost be like starting again. (In competition with new recuits from the Western countries.)
So, it's hard to prove your value when people are adamant to be only willing to pay at a certain level. Homer states his future employers will be surprised by his experience and dedication and so offer him more than his previous employer. 'More' in this sense not being just that which keeps up with inflation but more in terms of gratuity due to age and experince in the same field and rising through the ranks.
After ten years with Gepik I might have a longer vacation time. I may have one month not two weeks. Yet, our ten year tenured teacher receives three months per year. At the end of her 20 years she will receive a government superannuation. (Not severence but a lifetime's salary.)
Will Bob or Tom the Gepik teacher?

So, let's decide to get level one or two on the Korean proficiency test and join a Korean teacher's college. Then a 'foreigner' will be able to receive tenure at a public school.
Or, will it never happen?

I think the first Korean to receive the teaching diploma in NZ was five years ago. He's Mister Kim the math teacher.
How long will it before one of our immigrants passes teacher college here?

[jvalmer]

[Cheonmunka]

Doesn't matter where he's from. Good on him.

[mindmetoo]

[mindmetoo]

[Roch]

[Thunndarr]

[mindmetoo]

[Thunndarr]

Once again, it is a ridiculously lazy argument to suggest one leave a country based on one factor in their life.

Let's take a quick look at the absurdity of that suggestion.

"Hey, my neighboers are noisy!" "If you don't like it, then leave Korea!"

"Hey, I don't like kimchi!" "Leave Korea!"

"Hey, there are actually many things I enjoy about living in Korea, but I'm not thrilled with how teachers are valued by employers." "Leave Korea!"

I hope you can see where this is going. For most people, there are generally many reasons why one would choose or not to uproot one's life to move to another country, and one's salary is just one of many. Of course, you could say "Get another job then!" but due to the visa restrictions most teachers face that can be just as absurd a suggestion.

Second, I'm detecting a strong whiff of "If you aren't doing anything to change the system, then stop complaining." Fair enough, if you can promise me that you have never, ever complained about anything without actively trying to change it. If not, then my complaints, regardless of the actions I have or haven't taken, have as much right to be heard as any on this forum.

Third, it seems to be your contention that getting a raise here in Korea is equally as likely as getting a raise in the West. I find that a laughable conclusion for several reasons, many of which I've already outlined.

A) Teachers are largely seen as interchangeable.

B) Many teachers have a hard enough time getting paid what they are due let alone a raise. See Ianinilsan's long thread for confirmation of that.

C) There are more bad hagwons than good hagwons. (No hard numbers, but, out of all the people I've known who have worked at hagwons, I would say less than 5% renewed for a second year.)

D) You've blithely stated that small businessmen in the west operate on the same principles as hagwon owners, ie, they focus on short term profitability rather than long term profitability. I disagree with this strongly, and it forms the crux of the problem. I find that many Korean businesses are incredibly short-sighted. In my experience, most businesses here would rather extract every last dime they can from a customer on his first visit, thereby maximizing short term profit. Of course, what they are sacrificing is the likelihood that the customer will return in the future which will eventually mean a sacrifice in long term profit. I do not see that same short-sightedness in the West (or at the least, not nearly to the same degree as here.)

E) You've very blithely stated that a person's ability to get a raise is determined by performance and negotiating ability. Of course, it's not that simple is it?

First, you must actually work at a place that you want to re-sign at. How often does that happen? How likely is it that your first job in Korea will be so good that you'll want to continue at the same location? Simply put, with the number of bad employers out there, it is simply not possible for every good teacher to negotiate a raise by simple dint of the fact that they are at bad hagwons. (Yes, if you don't like it, then leave. Right, I got it. Let's ignore all the possible reasons that may prevent one from leaving a hagwon and just trot out that tired old phrase.)

Second, assuming that you actually want to re-sign, you must also work for a director or owner that sees you as worth more than your possible replacement. Yeah, in general, it's pretty easy to eke out a 100,000 won per year raise due to the simple fact that it actually costs the hagwon nothing to give you a raise at that point due to the fact they are saving roughly a million won in recruiting fees, largely off-setting the cost of your raise. However, getting a 200,000 won a year raise (which would actually cost the hagwon just 100,000 more per month than a newbie after paying recruiting fees) is a different animal entirely.

So, yeah, I think the whole "If you don't like it, then leave" to be trite and lazy. I also think that the idea that "in the hagwon industry your wage increase largely rests upon performance and your own ability to negotiate for more" to be overly simplistic, due to the reasons outlined above.

[The_Conservative]

[wylies99]

I'd be on the next flight home.

[mindmetoo]

[mindmetoo]

[Thunndarr]

[mindmetoo]