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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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 Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| superacidjax wrote: |
Right! A more relevant degree is Journalism. In J-classes, the emphais is always on spelling, punctuation, style and presenting arguments. English majors, as you said are focused on literature (usually) or creative writing. An English major is less concerned about practical language and more about lit. theory or creative writing.
Teaching EFL is about functional and practical language.. exactly the aim of a Journalism degree. Psychology or obviously education are also much more relevant than English degrees (in the context of EFL.) |
Couldn't disagree with you more. I've been a copy editor for two student newspapers (one daily, one weekly) and was constantly amazed at the hailstorm of errors submitted by our writers. Any copy editor will probably tell you the same thing.
Also, I assume the basic 'English' classes, which would emphasize syntax, are requirements for future journalists as well as lit majors.
A few weeks ago I saw a friend's paper she was working on. It was a thesis paper for one of her classes. There was a Wikipedia citation embedded in one of the paragraphs. Really, college is so gross now. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Rediculous |
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| esetters21 wrote: |
| superacidjax wrote: |
Insanity. While purusing Dave's while I'm supposed to be doing some work, I discovered several people that spell ridiculous incorrectly. Chronically.
It's mostly English teachers on this board, so it amazes me when such a common word is repeatedly misspelled, I have to wonder. I'm not a typo-Nazi like some of the people on the board, but when people are obviously clueless about how to spell something, yet they continue to use the word..
No wonder kids in Korea have such a tough time learning.. Many of the teachers can't spell themselves. An error is one thing (we all make mistakes) chronic grammar and spelling errors are simply "rediculous." |
I'm still trying to figure this out. Please elaborate on the use of the word "pursuing" in the context that you used it. |
Where are you seeing pursuing? I see purusing, but not pursuing. Funnier this way, I think! |
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cosmo
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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The irony is that the word which the wise OP misspelled, "peruse", is the action that he neglected to do before pressing the submit button.
We all make mistakes, but if you want to diss people for spelling errors, you gots to be a purfect speller. 
Thank you OP for a great source of amusement.
pe�ruse
[puh-rooz]
�verb (used with object), -rused, -rus�ing.
1. to read through with thoroughness or care: to peruse a report.
2. to read.
3. to survey or examine in detail.
"Yes, this is a general discussion forum, but shouldn't people at least preview the message before posting? This is supposed to be a community of English professionals, is asking for at least some attention to detail that much to ask?" OP  |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| Couldn't disagree with you more. I've been a copy editor for two student newspapers (one daily, one weekly) and was constantly amazed at the hailstorm of errors submitted by our writers. Any copy editor will probably tell you the same thing. |
And is the dominant degree in the professional news copy editor field? Journalism.
Copy editing is an essential skill learned in Journalism. In the professional ranks of journalists, there are going to be spelling and style errors, to be sure, however that's why there are copy editors. Do English majors take extensive clases in copy editing? Not usually.
I too worked for a variety of publications, both student and professional, and it's predicatable that student writers will make many errors. Also, student writers aren't under the same professional microscope as are professional writers. When I was with Reuters, if I submitted a story with extensive mistakes, they'd call me up and ream me a new one. Usually the only concerns of Reuters copy editors were style and fact checking. The point is that you should expect errors from students. That's why they're students! That's not a useful anecdote, because you didn't have other majors with which to compare the writing skills against Journalism majors. Get a group of biology majors in the newsroom and then you might have a basis by which to compare. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| superacidjax wrote: |
| And is the dominant degree in the professional news copy editor field? Journalism. |
It's there for why I'm talking yet has done? Pirates.
| Quote: |
Copy editing is an essential skill learned in Journalism. In the professional ranks of journalists, there are going to be spelling and style errors, to be sure, however that's why there are copy editors. Do English majors take extensive clases in copy editing? Not usually.
I too worked for a variety of publications, both student and professional, and it's predicatable that student writers will make many errors. Also, student writers aren't under the same professional microscope as are professional writers. When I was with Reuters, if I submitted a story with extensive mistakes, they'd call me up and ream me a new one. Usually the only concerns of Reuters copy editors were style and fact checking. The point is that you should expect errors from students. That's why they're students! That's not a useful anecdote, because you didn't have other majors with which to compare the writing skills against Journalism majors. Get a group of biology majors in the newsroom and then you might have a basis by which to compare. |
haha alright, point well taken, but I was a student at the time, too! Yet, there I was, wiping other students' chins with my electronicalistic Wet Ones, though I've never taken a single English class in college (thanks, CLEP!). What I'm getting at is that I'm amazingly incredulous at everything I do.
Please, please.. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
This is just patronising. I have to agree however that English lit is not the same as learning the language so my experience is pretty irrelevant. I think English Lit gives you more than the ability to churn out essays about Chaucer however.
Your complaint about not getting jobs happens in all fields. Some jobs require certain qualifications even if the person applying is otherwise well qualified. Deal with it.
I think you are all way over blowing the importance of spelling. Really how many mistakes do people make on these boards? Unless you absolutely cannot spell, then you can teach(as long as you have the other required skills for teaching). It just requires more planning and work.
We may be unclear on this though. Are you talking about people who can't spell at all, or people who make errors such as 'grammer', rediculous or leave out one letter when it should be doubled etc? I'm a good speller, as in when I hear a word I can normally spell it sylable by sylable. My sister cannot do this but is still a fantastic teacher who has to do more work to compensate for her spelltardness. I'm sure if she was on an online forum she souldn't put that time in to correct her mistakes.
Any spelling, punciation or grammar mistakes above or in this sentence are entirely intentional. To point them out would be to label yourself as a fool. |
Superacidjax is exactly right. A journalism student would be more well equipped to teach the language than an English student. I went through university as a freelance writer/editor and I decided sociology would complement it better than English, yet an English student who doesn't know the difference between it's and its (the most common mistake in my Write 495 class) is more qualified than me to get a lot of jobs involving writing.
| Qinella wrote: |
Couldn't disagree with you more. I've been a copy editor for two student newspapers (one daily, one weekly) and was constantly amazed at the hailstorm of errors submitted by our writers. Any copy editor will probably tell you the same thing.
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Maybe I was tougher on my writers. I made sure all of them were whipped into shape and knew their grammar, and they all did very well.
| Qinella wrote: |
Also, I assume the basic 'English' classes, which would emphasize syntax, are requirements for future journalists as well as lit majors.
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Incorrect. Look through the list of required classes English majors take. There might be one writing class, but nothing on "syntax." They're more concerned with reading the classics, not writing them. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
This is just patronising. I have to agree however that English lit is not the same as learning the language so my experience is pretty irrelevant. I think English Lit gives you more than the ability to churn out essays about Chaucer however.
Your complaint about not getting jobs happens in all fields. Some jobs require certain qualifications even if the person applying is otherwise well qualified. Deal with it.
I think you are all way over blowing the importance of spelling. Really how many mistakes do people make on these boards? Unless you absolutely cannot spell, then you can teach(as long as you have the other required skills for teaching). It just requires more planning and work.
We may be unclear on this though. Are you talking about people who can't spell at all, or people who make errors such as 'grammer', rediculous or leave out one letter when it should be doubled etc? I'm a good speller, as in when I hear a word I can normally spell it sylable by sylable. My sister cannot do this but is still a fantastic teacher who has to do more work to compensate for her spelltardness. I'm sure if she was on an online forum she souldn't put that time in to correct her mistakes.
Any spelling, punciation or grammar mistakes above or in this sentence are entirely intentional. To point them out would be to label yourself as a fool. |
Superacidjax is exactly right. A journalism student would be more well equipped to teach the language than an English student. I went through university as a freelance writer/editor and I decided sociology would complement it better than English, yet an English student who doesn't know the difference between it's and its (the most common mistake in my Write 495 class) is more qualified than me to get a lot of jobs involving writing.
| Qinella wrote: |
Couldn't disagree with you more. I've been a copy editor for two student newspapers (one daily, one weekly) and was constantly amazed at the hailstorm of errors submitted by our writers. Any copy editor will probably tell you the same thing.
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Maybe I was tougher on my writers. I made sure all of them were whipped into shape and knew their grammar, and they all did very well.
| Qinella wrote: |
Also, I assume the basic 'English' classes, which would emphasize syntax, are requirements for future journalists as well as lit majors.
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Incorrect. Look through the list of required classes English majors take. There might be one writing class, but nothing on "syntax." They're more concerned with reading the classics, not writing them. |
I'm not sure why you quoted me as you didn't address anything that I wrote. |
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Ozabout7or8
Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Superacidjax is exactly right. A journalism student would be more well equipped to teach the language than an English student. |
Ha  My linguistics professor would chew you up buddy. As if the articles or whatever that are written/authored by journalists are the only type of text around.
Your lack of linguistics training (THE STUDY OF THE STRUCTURE OF LANGUAGES AND HOW THEY ARE LEARNED) shows up highly.
It's like a couple of 100 pound weaklings arguing about who would be more likely to win the WBC Heavyweight Title.
The sooner you get your head out the better man. |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Rediculous |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| esetters21 wrote: |
| superacidjax wrote: |
Insanity. While purusing Dave's while I'm supposed to be doing some work, I discovered several people that spell ridiculous incorrectly. Chronically.
It's mostly English teachers on this board, so it amazes me when such a common word is repeatedly misspelled, I have to wonder. I'm not a typo-Nazi like some of the people on the board, but when people are obviously clueless about how to spell something, yet they continue to use the word..
No wonder kids in Korea have such a tough time learning.. Many of the teachers can't spell themselves. An error is one thing (we all make mistakes) chronic grammar and spelling errors are simply "rediculous." |
I'm still trying to figure this out. Please elaborate on the use of the word "pursuing" in the context that you used it. |
Where are you seeing pursuing? I see purusing, but not pursuing. Funnier this way, I think! |
Aha! Thanks. My eyes were playing tricks on me.  |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Ozabout7or8 wrote: |
| My linguistics professor would chew you up buddy. |
Ok, so only lingustics majors are equipped to teach. I'm sure that lingustics features extensive coursework on grammar, style and punctuation. I sure that lingustics features coursework on concise, practical writing.
Being knowledgable about how languages are learned isn't the same as being knowledgable about the language or more importantly, how to use it.
It takes both skills. One must be an knowledgable about learning techniques, but one must also be an expert in the language.
And no, journalist writing isn't the only kind of writing around, but the style of journalism writing is very closely related the the types of writing tasks faced by students in the real world.
But obviously, you are the expert on writing, so I'll leave you to it. |
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Ozabout7or8
Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: |
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I must admit, the level of language ability of NZ highschool graduates is appalling. There was recently a news article late last year about how schools were accepting txt-language on school final exams for subjects such as English and students were not getting marked down for it. There was even some kind of documents that went around to markers to let them know what various txt words meant 
My professors also wanna tear strips of the Ministry of Ed because they have done studies that show that the only type of text most students get any critical english exposure to right through high school is the creative writing/short story text type. And then we wonder why they come to University and struggle to adapt to academic writing assignments. And we still have only scratched the surface of the multitude of texts a person will encounter in their working/academic/personal life.
For this reason I concur that some people may end up with a BA in whatever and still not know much about what goes where in a sentence and why because they have never really had to know, especially in subjects where the writing component may have been low, or given less weight.
But it is much more than just grammer and punctuation, students need to be taught about the different types of texts in English (both written and spoken) and given a chance to understand the makeup, tone, form and function of each in order to properly communicate in English. For this reason I think you need to back of the spelling gig for a bit Super because as people have noted before, it is an issue, but it is not as major as you are making out. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ozabout7or8 wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Superacidjax is exactly right. A journalism student would be more well equipped to teach the language than an English student. |
Ha My linguistics professor would chew you up buddy. As if the articles or whatever that are written/authored by journalists are the only type of text around.
Your lack of linguistics training (THE STUDY OF THE STRUCTURE OF LANGUAGES AND HOW THEY ARE LEARNED) shows up highly.
It's like a couple of 100 pound weaklings arguing about who would be more likely to win the WBC Heavyweight Title.
The sooner you get your head out the better man. |
Where did anyone ever say linguistics was useless? I think it would be very useful for teaching phonics/pronunciation. Not sure about where you come from, but at my university linguistics was in the social sciences department, not the English department.
I think we can all agree the most useful degree for an English teacher would be teaching. Followed by something that teaches language practically, such as linguistics or writing. English literature, Shakespearean English, Victorian literature, etc, comes in a distant third. |
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