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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Or do you understand US democracy at alll? Since the Dems did not have a veto-proof majority, they opted not to put US soldiers in even graver danger than they are by not funding them. To sustain the deadlock would have made them complicit in the deaths of more Americans, and justly or not, that's what matters to Americans. |
No, the Democrats promised their voters that they would put an end to US involvement in Iraq. The voters took them at their word, and voted them in. That was their mandate.
All they had to do was to stick to their guns. Do what they promised the electorate. Because once you cut off the money, the Pentagon would have to get out of there pretty quickly.
They lied to their voters.
And turned democracy in the US into a joke. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| All they had to do was to stick to their guns. |
They did not have enough votes to defeat the President. Did that figure into your preachy calculations?
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| ...once you cut off the money, the Pentagon would have to get out of there pretty quickly. |
No. Cutting funds with troops still on the ground would have been the height of irresponsibility and bad govt. Most Democrats know this -- even if the simpletons do not.
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| They lied to their voters. |
Unlikely. More likely that some of their voters, like not a few who post here, had the most unrealistic, indeed idealistic expectations in mind.
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| And turned democracy in the US into a joke. |
Unfortunate you continue to hurl this around. But you have said this enough times that I will respond: you and your simplistic, unrealistic understanding of what "American democracy" is supposed to be is the joke, Manner.
The other joke here is that not a few posters continue banging their head against reality's wall, hoping they might actually change: (a) American politics and (b) the Iraqi War with sustained angry posts.
This is a message board but many seem to think it is some kind of an actual soapbox. I would wager, however, that no more than fifty (and that is a very, very liberal estimate, mind you) different people ever read these things.
So, then, many here are furiously flinging tiny grains of sand into a vast sea and then screaming when it fails to displace any water...
And perhaps that is the funniest joke of all. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Or do you understand US democracy at alll? Since the Dems did not have a veto-proof majority, they opted not to put US soldiers in even graver danger than they are by not funding them. To sustain the deadlock would have made them complicit in the deaths of more Americans, and justly or not, that's what matters to Americans. |
No, the Democrats promised their voters that they would put an end to US involvement in Iraq. The voters took them at their word, and voted them in. That was their mandate.
All they had to do was to stick to their guns. Do what they promised the electorate. Because once you cut off the money, the Pentagon would have to get out of there pretty quickly.
They lied to their voters.
And turned democracy in the US into a joke. |
The Democrats don't have enough members, 2/3s, to overturn a Presidential veto. So what you say is not true. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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If they believed in their principles, and intended to stick by their promises to their electorate, all they had to do was to say to Bush after the veto, "Well, that's our funding bill. Take it or leave it. You don't get another."
The height of irresponsibility was lying to their electorate. Now, all those people who voted for them, believing their promises, voted for nothing. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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kuros:
The system in the United States gives the President the right to Veto Congress. This what he did.
Congress in its wisdom brought in new legislation that did not set a timetable for withdrawal. There other alternative would be toover-ride the veto, but their majority is too small for that.
Had they failed to appropriate money to pay, and even one American soldier dies because of that act, the consequences would have been deadly. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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So who has the American public got that they can to turn to now?
The majority of Americans want the US out of Iraq.
The Republicans won't give them that, because it will make Bush look like a failure.
The President won't give them that, because he'll never admit that he made a mistake.
The Democrats promised them that...then turned around and backed down. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
So who has the American public got that they can to turn to now?
The majority of Americans want the US out of Iraq. |
Not that I doubt that claim, but I'm just wondering if you have a source for it? |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Overanalyzing the situation just makes it less clear, not more.
The whole system is now, officially, a joke.
And probably everyone who voted Democrat now agrees.
There is no other conclusion you could come to. You'd have to be awfully thick-headed and stupid NOT to see it's a joke. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
So who has the American public got that they can to turn to now?
The majority of Americans want the US out of Iraq. |
Not that I doubt that claim, but I'm just wondering if you have a source for it? |
Sure.
Every person who voted Democrat.
Go ask them. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I voted Democrat. I want the Democrats to fund our troops. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
So who has the American public got that they can to turn to now?
The majority of Americans want the US out of Iraq. |
Not that I doubt that claim, but I'm just wondering if you have a source for it? |
Sure.
Every person who voted Democrat.
Go ask them. |
Since Bush won the popular vote in 2004 by nearly 4 million votes, one could argue that the majority of Americans support him. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Go ask every person who voted Democrat. All of them.
You wanted the source. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
So who has the American public got that they can to turn to now?
The majority of Americans want the US out of Iraq. |
Not that I doubt that claim, but I'm just wondering if you have a source for it? |
Sure.
Every person who voted Democrat.
Go ask them. |
Since Bush won the popular vote in 2004 by nearly 4 million votes, one could argue that the majority of Americans support him. |
And one can also argue that over two years, a large number of those people changed their minds. Hence, they voted Democrat. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
Go ask every person who voted Democrat. All of them.
You wanted the source. |
No. I don't think that's a reasonable request. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you're the one looking for a source.
Like I said, OVERanalyzing the situation just makes it less clear.
Don't blame me if it's a joke. *I* didn't make it that way. ** shrug ** |
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