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dogshed
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: |
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I'm happy to see that so many people are dispelling the
myth that cars using storage methods like hydrogen,
batteries, or compressed air do not use an energy source.
I'm sure there are some people that still think
a hydrogen car means you can burn tap water.
However, while there is no free lunch there are
some advantages.
Regenerative braking can recover energy that
would usually be lost to the brakes.
As demonstrated by hybrid cars if you use
a fossil fuel the motor can be smaller and
more efficient.
Having polutants generated at a central facility
like a power plant means that the weight of polution
control equipment is not a factor in the vehicle
and is easier to monitor by the government
or environmental groups.
The power source can be changed without changing
everyone's car. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Look, here's the key right here:
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| The cost of a fill up is approximately $2.00. If a driver doesn't have access to a compressor station, they will be able to plug into the electrical grid and use the car's built-in compressor to refill the tank in about 4 hours. |
The car has a built-in compressor so all you need is an electrical grid. I've known of people who had solar powered electrical units to maintain their whole houses and barns way out in the sticks. So you don't even need a station. Maybe it takes more time but if you are really a true tree hugger you do have this as an option. Personally, I'd rather pay the two bucks and I couldn't care less about the rest. I really think this is going to be a big deal in the near future. We should be hearing a lot of news about this car technology in 2008.
Pay close attention people, this IS a big deal:
| Quote: |
| N�gre has signed deals to bring its design to 12 more countries, including Germany, Israel and South Africa. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| That's right, it's certainly not impossible for a country to change where they get their electricity from. Hydro isn't the only game in town. Denmark generates 20% of its electricity from wind power and at times when usage is low wind power is sufficient enough to power the whole country. Other countries like Iceland are blessed with geothermal power. Nuclear, hydro and coal aren't the only options to choose from. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Wow! 6,000 eco-friendly Air-Powered Cars from India in 2 |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| I'd like to buy stock in this company. Anyone know how I might do that? I've never invested in stock before but this really has me thinking. I'm not even sure they are on the public stock market for trading. I'm being serious! |
By the way, another company closer to home that might be worth buying stock in if it ever goes public is Tesla Motors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors
Note the name Elon Musk there, the guy whose company sent up the Falcon-1 rocket a few months back. Their car is faster than a Ferrari, travels 350 km on a single charge, and comes with a solar option as well so you can just leave it in the sun for a while and start driving it again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Wow! 6,000 eco-friendly Air-Powered Cars from India in 2 |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
| I'd like to buy stock in this company. Anyone know how I might do that? I've never invested in stock before but this really has me thinking. I'm not even sure they are on the public stock market for trading. I'm being serious! |
By the way, another company closer to home that might be worth buying stock in if it ever goes public is Tesla Motors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors
Note the name Elon Musk there, the guy whose company sent up the Falcon-1 rocket a few months back. Their car is faster than a Ferrari, travels 350 km on a single charge, and comes with a solar option as well so you can just leave it in the sun for a while and start driving it again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster |
yeah, that's one beautiful car! However, it still uses gasoline and the price tag is far out of reach for the average consumer at over $92k. Many big companies have invested in them, however, including Google. There's already a big investment in the company so hopefully they will get a return on the investment and it will pay off. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Wow! 6,000 eco-friendly Air-Powered Cars from India in 2 |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
| I'd like to buy stock in this company. Anyone know how I might do that? I've never invested in stock before but this really has me thinking. I'm not even sure they are on the public stock market for trading. I'm being serious! |
By the way, another company closer to home that might be worth buying stock in if it ever goes public is Tesla Motors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors
Note the name Elon Musk there, the guy whose company sent up the Falcon-1 rocket a few months back. Their car is faster than a Ferrari, travels 350 km on a single charge, and comes with a solar option as well so you can just leave it in the sun for a while and start driving it again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster |
yeah, that's one beautiful car! However, it still uses gasoline |
? No it doesn't. Not a drop. Watch this video as the car is turned on without a sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKUyZHTNOiY&mode=related&search= |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| That's right, it's certainly not impossible for a country to change where they get their electricity from. Hydro isn't the only game in town. Denmark generates 20% of its electricity from wind power and at times when usage is low wind power is sufficient enough to power the whole country. Other countries like Iceland are blessed with geothermal power. Nuclear, hydro and coal aren't the only options to choose from. |
Does it scale up? Denmark is a far cry from a nation of a billion... or even a nation of 300 million. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| dogshed wrote: |
I'm happy to see that so many people are dispelling the
myth that cars using storage methods like hydrogen,
batteries, or compressed air do not use an energy source.
I'm sure there are some people that still think
a hydrogen car means you can burn tap water.
However, while there is no free lunch there are
some advantages.
Regenerative braking can recover energy that
would usually be lost to the brakes.
As demonstrated by hybrid cars if you use
a fossil fuel the motor can be smaller and
more efficient.
Having polutants generated at a central facility
like a power plant means that the weight of polution
control equipment is not a factor in the vehicle
and is easier to monitor by the government
or environmental groups.
The power source can be changed without changing
everyone's car. |
Regenerative braking is good in theory however it is still stored energy and requires battery disposal.
Maybe regenrate the braking to compressed air tanks?!
cbc |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I think the arguement is not whether the technology works.
Energy need to be created, transferred and stored.
Stored energy solutions provide an illusion.
Here's a car tha tuses no gas, yipee.
I would love to see clean energy in my lifetime.
Please look past the facade of stored energy, it may be a path toward energy management, but it does not offer the complete solution.
Stored energy requires a source.
As far as $2.00 for a fillup on compressed air, well you can drive a lightweight energy efficient gas powered car 125 miles on $2.0.
cbc |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| That's right, it's certainly not impossible for a country to change where they get their electricity from. Hydro isn't the only game in town. Denmark generates 20% of its electricity from wind power and at times when usage is low wind power is sufficient enough to power the whole country. Other countries like Iceland are blessed with geothermal power. Nuclear, hydro and coal aren't the only options to choose from. |
Does it scale up? Denmark is a far cry from a nation of a billion... or even a nation of 300 million. |
I think so - as always, Wikipedia has a nice chart:
 |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
I think the arguement is not whether the technology works.
Energy need to be created, transferred and stored.
Stored energy solutions provide an illusion.
Here's a car tha tuses no gas, yipee.
I would love to see clean energy in my lifetime.
Please look past the facade of stored energy, it may be a path toward energy management, but it does not offer the complete solution.
Stored energy requires a source.
As far as $2.00 for a fillup on compressed air, well you can drive a lightweight energy efficient gas powered car 125 miles on $2.0.
cbc |
Why are you suggesting a gas powered car over an air-compressed car? A gas powered car still uses batteries. They have to be changed every year or so. I just don't get your point. You want to see clean energy in your lifetime. Sure all of us would like to see world peace happen too but all of this takes time. These new cars being assembled in India and up for market to the common people in 2008 is just one beginning of something better. You have to start somewhere. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| Why are you suggesting a gas powered car over an air-compressed car? A gas powered car still uses batteries. They have to be changed every year or so. I just don't get your point. You want to see clean energy in your lifetime. Sure all of us would like to see world peace happen too but all of this takes time. These new cars being assembled in India and up for market to the common people in 2008 is just one beginning of something better. You have to start somewhere. |
The question is where does the energy come from current to compress the air? Where is it likely to come from in the future? If a large part of it is coal, then it's not at all clean energy. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
| Why are you suggesting a gas powered car over an air-compressed car? A gas powered car still uses batteries. They have to be changed every year or so. I just don't get your point. You want to see clean energy in your lifetime. Sure all of us would like to see world peace happen too but all of this takes time. These new cars being assembled in India and up for market to the common people in 2008 is just one beginning of something better. You have to start somewhere. |
The question is where does the energy come from current to compress the air? Where is it likely to come from in the future? If a large part of it is coal, then it's not at all clean energy. |
He's well aware of that (see his post about ten posts back) - what he's saying is the following:
1) Start using cars that don't require gasoline, and then
2) Work on power sources so that the electricity used by/for the cars comes from a clean source.
When you're using gas, there's nowhere to go. With a car like this you could easily also install solar panels on your house, charge it at home and emit nothing.
It's an easy situation to understand. Neither our computers, lights, tvs nor anything else run on gas and that gives us the choice to switch to companies that only use hydro or wind power. All this is is the adding of cars to the mix. I'd love to see a parallel universe where all our lights and tvs and computers are powered by gas and the discussions that go on there. "Man, if you switch your computers off of gas power you're just going to redirect the emissions. I'm staying with my somewhat gas-efficient computer. I only have to fill my laptop up once and I'm good for twenty hours at Starbucks." |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
| Why are you suggesting a gas powered car over an air-compressed car? A gas powered car still uses batteries. They have to be changed every year or so. I just don't get your point. You want to see clean energy in your lifetime. Sure all of us would like to see world peace happen too but all of this takes time. These new cars being assembled in India and up for market to the common people in 2008 is just one beginning of something better. You have to start somewhere. |
The question is where does the energy come from current to compress the air? Where is it likely to come from in the future? If a large part of it is coal, then it's not at all clean energy. |
He's well aware of that (see his post about ten posts back) - what he's saying is the following:
1) Start using cars that don't require gasoline, and then
2) Work on power sources so that the electricity used by/for the cars comes from a clean source.
When you're using gas, there's nowhere to go. With a car like this you could easily also install solar panels on your house, charge it at home and emit nothing. |
Yes but that's a slipper slope. If we do this then maybe we'll choose environmentally friendly sources to generate the power. Maybe. Is that how the free market works? At least in terms of North America, the cheapest, quickest way to meet any increased energy demand caused by such cars is coal fired plants. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
| Why are you suggesting a gas powered car over an air-compressed car? A gas powered car still uses batteries. They have to be changed every year or so. I just don't get your point. You want to see clean energy in your lifetime. Sure all of us would like to see world peace happen too but all of this takes time. These new cars being assembled in India and up for market to the common people in 2008 is just one beginning of something better. You have to start somewhere. |
The question is where does the energy come from current to compress the air? Where is it likely to come from in the future? If a large part of it is coal, then it's not at all clean energy. |
He's well aware of that (see his post about ten posts back) - what he's saying is the following:
1) Start using cars that don't require gasoline, and then
2) Work on power sources so that the electricity used by/for the cars comes from a clean source.
When you're using gas, there's nowhere to go. With a car like this you could easily also install solar panels on your house, charge it at home and emit nothing. |
Yes but that's a slipper slope. If we do this then maybe we'll choose environmentally friendly sources to generate the power. Maybe. Is that how the free market works? At least in terms of North America, the cheapest, quickest way to meet any increased energy demand caused by such cars is coal fired plants. |
These cars aren't even scheduled to be sold in North America. They will, however, be sold in a least twelve other countries. Meanwhile North Americans will continue to use 99.9% gas powered autos and fill up at stations that leak oil into the ground and contaminate our water supplies. I can't tell you how many gas stations near my home that had to be shut down on account of them leaking 'too much' oil and it being too costly to repair this problem. |
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