|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
cangel

Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
|
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I think you ARE trying to say that, though - that Islam is inherently violent, even though it's been around a while and only recently got this violence thing attached to it |
You're joking, right? Only recently? While this much violence is new, Islam has ALWAYS been a violent religion. But hey, the Muslims don't have a monopoly on violenece-just look at Christianity. The difference being, Christianity has evolved and Islam has not.
It sucks painting with broad strokes but that's the price we pay. I would rather be safe than sorry. And, I'll beat ya to the punch-Yes, I believe internment camps at the beginning of WWII were necessary for the time. Obviously, I'll have to explain but I'll wait for the typical retaliation first. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Internment camps? Who's talking about that? Did I nod off and miss something?
Wierd. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bjonothan
Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Location: All over the place
|
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Islam has always been a violent religion. To learn more about how violent Islam is, google sura and soura 8 and 9 and see what the Quran says. I wonder how many of you have actually done any research on this cult. It tells them that they can tell lies and all sorts of stuff. Cangel was quite right, christians have evolved and Islam has not. They are still stuck in the year 1100 or so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bjonothan wrote: |
| They are still stuck in the year 1100 or so. |
I admire your optimism if you think Western Culture has "evolved" appreciably in only 900 years. What we have evolved is new and more efficient ways of killing each other.
Evidence? The history of the 20th century.
Islam has a got a big job ahead of it before they can claim to have killed as many living, breathing human beings as Europe and America managed to do in a few short decades.
I'd laugh ... but ain't a damn thing funny, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Look, you're trying to be sensible, but I'm afraid I have to say the obvious, that you are tarring an entire culture and religion with a brush that only needs to be used for a small minority within the larger group. Like saying all white people need to die because Timothy McVeigh blew up a building in Oklahoma and Charlie Manson killed an up-and-coming starlet, which inspired a really cool song from the Beatles ... no, wait, I think it was the other way around, now that I think. |
Ah yes, the small minority of extremists. Of course, only a small minority of Muslims actually go on to blow themselves up (although Muslims committing acts of violence in the name of their religion far exceeds anything committed by people of other religions).
However, this does not mean that the rest of them do not hold extremely intolerant views (and by intolerant I mean stoning gays, not opposing gay marriage), or have any intention of accepting Western values or integrating into the West, or that their presence in the West in large numbers does not pose a huge security threat. As we know, and have experienced, having large numbers of Muslims in your country makes you prone to Muslim violence, and if we have to keep out the 'peaceful' majority to exclude the violent minority, then I think that is a price worth paying.
| Quote: |
| How much do you really KNOW about Islam? Lotta people know more than me, of course, but what I DO know is there is nothing inherent in the religion that makes people strap bombs to themselves and shout absurdities before they die and take a lot of people with them. |
If there is nothing inherent in Islam that compels people to commit murder while screaming Allah hu Akhbar, then why are there not people of other religions (bar isolated examples) committing mass murder, in the name of their religion, in such frightening numbers. Pick just about any Muslim country and you will find examples of people committing murder and butchery in the name of Islam, or people (often 'clerics') urging people to commit violence in the name of Islam.
You can also find countless examples of Western countries with large Muslim populations of Muslims committing murder in the name of Islam. But according to you, none of this violence is in any way related to the numerous invocations to violence in the Koran. It's just some bizarre coincidence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
bIG vERN,
Take off your blinders......
This is what galls me the worst. That so so so so sosososososo many people cry out against Muslim this violence and Muslim that violence while ignoring their own home grown religion of violence. It doesn't matter what book it is from, or who is on the pulpit preaching it. Violence is violence and we have our share. You fail to acknowledge that because you are blind with moral snotuppery. Bobster had a start with the quantity in the 20th century but I could add much more.
This is why your message is improper -- it is unbalanced and like anything unbalanced, apt to topple into more violence any moment. Hate is saying "THEY do horrible things while inferring "we" are so noble." Ain't the case mate.
DD |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
postfundie

Joined: 28 May 2004
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| This is what galls me the worst. That so so so so sosososososo many people cry out against Muslim this violence and Muslim that violence while ignoring their own home grown religion of violence. It doesn't matter what book it is from, or who is on the pulpit preaching it. Violence is violence and we have our share |
Oh at some point in time it does too matter what book it comes from, especially if that book is protected and kept above criticism and people read it all day every day......sorry DD you'll just have to come to terms with the prophet muhammed being the greatest example for all of mankind... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| This is what galls me the worst. That so so so so sosososososo many people cry out against Muslim this violence and Muslim that violence while ignoring their own home grown religion of violence. It doesn't matter what book it is from, or who is on the pulpit preaching it. Violence is violence and we have our share. You fail to acknowledge that because you are blind with moral snotuppery. Bobster had a start with the quantity in the 20th century but I could add much more |
As usual you fail to address any of the issues, instead resorting to meaningless platitudes and waffle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| When was the last time good vicious Catholics blew themselves up on trains and in busses or crashed planes into tall buildings? Yesterday? Last year? Last century? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Cheonmunka

Joined: 04 Jun 2004
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think people who have lived in Iraq during the bombing campaigns really do have a valid point. But, it's not them pulling bomb releases on their vests. They were mothers and children. They were bombed by good Christians this century, and last parts of the 20th.
I met a young chap who was an Iraqi refugee from the first Bush campaign. He had so much scaring. He wasn't a soldier. He was a student at the university. He was walking in a market when an office building and complex one mile away just disintegrated and the debris blew out in the radius.
That one missile killed a lot of people.
Did you ever hear about it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| When was the last time good vicious Catholics blew themselves up on trains and in busses or crashed planes into tall buildings? Yesterday? Last year? Last century? |
UGH????
The Irish were quite good at that and at extolling the wishes of God to see them "free". So to Israel and its calls for reading the good book "godly" and its revisionism vis a vis its own religious scholars and their words regarding a Jewish "homeland". I could go on and on, from the reformation to the Reich to Rice. The bible study room in the White House and Capital building is the busiest place there......scripture informs policy. Prayer is a vital part of each military unit and mission. As symbolic as apple pie and grandma......
Just today, U.S. shells landed in Somalia, killing as yet, unverifiable innocents. In whose name? For what good? The fact of the matter is that we are informed by our own religious doctrine (however we wish to believe ourselves as having seperated "church" and state). Bush just makes it more obvious. That you don't see this, just stinks of the prevailing "exceptionalism" which runs through the minds of the West.
But the issues, the fight against terrorism should not be framed in a "religious blanket". This only makes it into more than it is. The issues are not religious -- or how to account for the fact that Islam has been as much a religion of peace and social networking and assimilation than war, since its inception? Muslims more or less come from a cultural tradition of travel, trade, voyaging over large parts of the world and settling there. If your notion that the Koran is to blame for violence is to be accepted, we would have seen much more violence in the world previously, for many centuries. Not the case.
The present "extremism" is just that. Using the name of religion for political ends and power. It will fail unless we keep killing in return and not address the underlying issues.
I'm all for Kerry and his stating bluntly that the "war on terror" is only a bumper sticker, a slogan. We've been duped and all those writing above, writing with notions of "the other" , "the enemy" , black and whitism -- have been duped. Pawns .......
DD |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Cheonmunka

Joined: 04 Jun 2004
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I distinctly remember during Spanish lit. that the Muslims set up centers for learning in Spain and Jewish were accepted and benefitted greatly. Shortly after that the Christians ruled Spain and started the Inquisitions and killed a lot of innocent people.
Please go back up two posts and read that true story. Then re-read DD's.
I actually don't think extremist leaders have the mind to care whether the bombing of their hometowns make them mad, 'cause I believe they just find a quick excuse, however, the bombings on Iraq created a lot of confusion and maybe a lot of hate for the survivors.
Picture yourself in your family home with babes asleep and you with your wife, suddenly the biggest Earth-shaking boom, a sound of metal tearing, beams falling, sizzling sounds. Loud sobs break out. A man looks at his child's bed to see his baby with no head.
Who are these killers?
Who does these despicable, evil acts?
I can name and put a face to one. He is a Christian. His title is 'Commander in Chief.' |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bjonothan
Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Location: All over the place
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ddeubel you seem to have a very twisted perception of the west for someone who has enjoyed the freedom it provides.
Firstly, muslims have been killing people for so many years in the name of their "religion". Remember when the pope mentioned this and they all got angry? And if you take a look back in recent history, those peaceful people were killing each other before they turned their attention on us. That was our biggest mistake maybe. Before you people make stupid statements like "Islam is a peaceful religion" I suggest you read some of the Quran. You can google it and then read what it says. It actually talks about telling lies to the enemy to achieve your goal and cutting people's head off with a sword. When you read it, you will realise that it isn't peaceful at all. When you look at the middle east, Thailand, the philippines, Africa and all the problems our own countries are having because of Muslims, how can you say it is a peaceful religion? I wouldn't call it a religion, it is a cult that was made by a man that loved killing and having sex with little girls. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
cangel

Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Blah, blah, blahhhhh.... You can sugar-coat this any way you like but the fact remains that there are elements to Islam that are inherently violent, and that reward those who kill in the name of their religion. As I previously stated, the religion is stuck in the past, and needs to evolve. And, as I previously stated, give these young men (and women) a reason to live, not a reason to die. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
postfundie

Joined: 28 May 2004
|
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| But the issues, the fight against terrorism should not be framed in a "religious blanket". This only makes it into more than it is. The issues are not religious -- or how to account for the fact that Islam has been as much a religion of peace and social networking and assimilation than war, since its inception? Muslims more or less come from a cultural tradition of travel, trade, voyaging over large parts of the world and settling there. If your notion that the Koran is to blame for violence is to be accepted, we would have seen much more violence in the world previously, for many centuries. |
You are about the biggest hypocrite here. You rant about others having hate speech, but you are happy to condone hate speech religious book known as the Koran. Do you really have no room in your mind for the concepts of Dar Al Islam and Dar al-Harb??? I mean if Muhammed said that it's God's will for his followers to fight and conquer the world, what exactly does that mean? Then again maybe North Africans were praying for a new religion and one just came along. Yes again kill the muslims (sorry homosexuals and polytheists ) where ever you may find them......the rest we'll put them under God's law and discriminate against them with a religious tax....ahhh yes what peace... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|