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| Is the English-speaking world superior? |
| Yes |
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68% |
[ 42 ] |
| No |
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27% |
[ 17 ] |
| Undecided |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 61 |
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| Author |
Message |
Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| pastis wrote: |
| Omkara wrote: |
| Turns out, Asians have 2-3 IQ points advantage on average. |
Rubbish. Where's your source? |
One interesting point, the choice of your word. It's dripping with emotion. (I'm not calling you emotional--when I read the statistic, my first response was emotional too. But, since I'm Amerian, my first choice of word was something like, "B.S.!")
The memories we retain for the greatest length of time are associated with powerful emotions. The more powerful the emotion, the greater the imprint of the memory. Check in five years to see if you still retain this memory. Then, you'll know something quite closer to the heart of the issue.
Yet, the emotions are relating only to a statistical model, which can only express probabilities.
That the average asian has 2-3 IQ points on the average white does not necessarily mean that most Asians are smarter than any one of us. I mean, we are all superior, right? I mean, don't most people think that most people are stupid, inferior?
But again, this is only a probablility.
Couldn't find the exact page, but the statistic is in the book called "Emotional Intelligence." It's not the greatest book in the world, but it has some interesting points. The book is done with good research methodology. So, if you want to further you inquiry, you can follow leads given in the book. |
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IamBabo
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:30 am Post subject: DEBT TO CHINA |
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here ya go spinoza,
source: bbc news
China is a major funder of US debt, holding about $260bn (�149bn) in US Treasury bonds - second only to Japan. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Interesting thread OP. Please accept my contribution:
Currently, English is used by at least 750 million people in the world (Rico, 2004). Moreover, 75% of the world�s written communications, more than 50% of the scientific and technical periodicals, approximately 80% of the information stored in the world�s computers, and almost 50% of all business deals are conducted in English (McCrum, Cran, and MacNeil, 1986).
Now ask yourself, is the English speaking world superior? Evidently in this context, yes it is. He who controls the dissemination of information controls the flow of information. Therefore, the power lies with the bearer.
Works Cited
Diaz-Rico, L. T. (2004). Teaching English Learners: Strategies and Methods. Boston, MA: Pearson Education.
McCrum, R., Cran, W., & MacNeil, R. (1986). The story of English. New York: Viking. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: Re: DEBT TO CHINA |
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| IamBabo wrote: |
here ya go spinoza,
source: bbc news
China is a major funder of US debt, holding about $260bn (�149bn) in US Treasury bonds - second only to Japan. |
And? Let me put this in perspective. (and I think the number is 640billion in US denominated assets..)
America puts little green pieces of paper on a boat and sends them to China. The boat comes back with TV's and shoes on it.
Okok. So, I suppose this debt has to be "paid", right? Not exactly. The Chinese get great financial stability form having such huge reserves and plan to invest a huge portion (similar to Temasak in Singapore) around the world.
America wins both ways. The printing of that money stimulates aggregate demand yet the inflationary pressure doesn't occur to the extent that it ought to because the currency doesn't actually enter the market. The Chinese sit on it and thus keep the "inflation monster" at bay.
Some say "The Chinese could collapse the dollar". Sure. But why would they want to? If the Chinese released this cash into the market the value of the cash that they have left would decrease. They need a highly valued dollar as the higher value of the dollar, the higher the value of their safety net.
The best best best part of all this, is that the Americans and Chinese are now financially related to eachother and forced into cooperation. The more integrated their economies become, the less the likelihood of conflict. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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In any case, 640bn is 4.8% of U.S. GDP.....on the assumption 1 billion = 1,000,000,000 (thousand million).
240bn (240,000 million - which according to the stats is the annual GDP of South Africa pretty much) is 1.8% of U.S. GDP.
In the context of countries, 640bn, let alone 240bn, is not much, since as we can see from the stats, the GDP of the U.S. is $13,244,550,000,000....13 million million.
240,000,000,000 and 640,000,000,000 are 1.8%/4.8% of that figure respectively.
If the United Kingdom had this debt to China, it'd be 10% of it's GDP. So, in this casual observer's opinion, even the Brits could afford it.
U.S. debt to China relative to World GDP? 0.5%
Cuban Lord - I read somewhere (unfortunately I forget where) that 1 in 4 human beings have proficiency in English and that people who use English as a second language (fluently) will soon outnumber native speakers. When we consider that native speakers are 7% of the world population, it's easy to imagine a scenario where native speakers are totally outnumbered. Having said that, I once heard someone (NOT a Korean) claim this is because native English speakers are dumber!  |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| pastis wrote: |
| Omkara wrote: |
| Turns out, Asians have 2-3 IQ points advantage on average. |
Rubbish. Where's your source? |
Is it too contrary to your personal belief? If so, what do you think it should be? There was this controversial book titled "IQ and the Wealth of Nations".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations
The highest five in this study are Hong Kong(107), South Korea(106), Japan(105), Taiwan(104) and Singapore(103) followed by Austria. And of course, there are many different ideas as to what IQ tests can imply. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Its unfair to compare the US economy to any other country.
The US economy is a behemoth. Look at consumer spending between Americans versus the rest of the world. Look at our unemployment rate. Americans think 5% unemployment is unacceptable, meanwhile the rest of the world dream to get their unemployment that low.
My point is, the US is an outlier. Take the US out of the English nations equation and you get a more accurate picture to make a comparison.
Also, technically, you can't lump the US because English is not the "official" language of the US. The US does not have an official language. Thats a very weak argument though. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The English speaking world is surely superior in its ability to speak English. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| ...Cuban Lord - I read somewhere (unfortunately I forget where) that 1 in 4 human beings have proficiency in English and that people who use English as a second language (fluently) will soon outnumber native speakers. When we consider that native speakers are 7% of the world population, it's easy to imagine a scenario where native speakers are totally outnumbered. Having said that, I once heard someone (NOT a Korean) claim this is because native English speakers are dumber! |
Hi Spin,
You are correct. As a matter of fact, I have that specific citation somewhere in my plethora of English language related facts. However, one must ask himself, why is it that there are so many ELL's and L2 English speakers out there? What is the driving force behind this? If you look at one of the pieces I wrote for the Korea Herald, you will find the answer. Also, David Crystal is a noteworthy author. He has several books providing facts and citations regarding this very issue. Give him a read if you haven't already.  |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Its unfair to compare the US economy to any other country.
The US economy is a behemoth. |
Absolutely. With 4.54% of the world's population, the U.S. has 27% of the world's GDP, compared to China with 20% of the world's population and 5.4% GDP - almost the complete opposite. Absolutely stunning stat. It's a common thing though. The poorest English-speaking country is New Zealand, with only 4 million people (0.06% pop.) and 0.2% GDP. That's also remarkable.
| Quote: |
| Look at consumer spending between Americans versus the rest of the world. Look at our unemployment rate. Americans think 5% unemployment is unacceptable, meanwhile the rest of the world dream to get their unemployment that low. |
Not sure about consumer spending (the more stats, the merrier, dude) but 2006 world unemployment stats reveal the US has a similar unemployment rate to the rest of the English-speaking world (henceforth: ESW) apart from South Africa. The UK and Ireland actually have lower rates as does New Zealand. The Blair govt has a very good record with low unemployment rates.
| Quote: |
| My point is, the US is an outlier. Take the US out of the English nations equation and you get a more accurate picture to make a comparison. |
My previous remarks make this inapplicable:
China has 20% of the population of the world and 5.4% GDP. The UK has 0.9% population and 5% GDP.
there are three English-speaking countries in the GDP top 10 - the US, the UK and Canada. Remarkably, Australia (population 20 million) is 15th place, with a not entirely dissimilar GDP to Mexico and India.
But anyway, let's remove the USA from the equation and see if your argument survives basic scrutiny. The English-speaking world now has 167 million people. That's 2.5% of the world's population. These countries, as of the 2006 stats, have a combined GDP of 4,978,212,000,000 (nearly five million million). This is 10.3% of world GDP. Mind you, a lot of this is trade with the US.....
Again, compared to heavily populated countries, the ESW, even in the hypothetical absence of the US, has twice the GDP of China with 13% of the population of China. The U.K. alone has 4.6% of China's population yet 90% of China's GDP. I'm not taking digs at China here. I'm saying that the economic power of the ESW is extremely high considering it has a mere 7% of the world's population (2.5% excluding the U.S.) which is the premise of the thread. Thus far, 14 people are happy to conclude from this (and possibly other factors) that the ESW is in a general way superior whereas 10 people are not. One person doesn't know. This is what I wanted to find out - general opinion.
| Quote: |
| Also, technically, you can't lump the US because English is not the "official" language of the US. The US does not have an official language. Thats a very weak argument though. |
It would be a very weak argument, I agree, so why make it? People in America speak English. It's a former British colony. It's a de facto English-speaking country.
Last edited by SPINOZA on Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
Its unfair to compare the US economy to any other country.
The US economy is a behemoth. |
Absolutely. With 4.54% of the world's population, the U.S. has 27% of the world's GDP, compared to China with 20% of the world's population and 5.4% GDP - almost the complete opposite. Absolutely stunning stat. It's a common thing though. The poorest English-speaking country is New Zealand, with only 4 million people (0.06% pop.) and 0.2% GDP. That's also remarkable. |
New Zealand is the poorest English-speaking country? Really? REALLLY? I would have named a few Caribbean islands before I would have thought of New Zealand...Or Guyana...or Liberia perhaps....
Just curious, what source did you use? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Is the English-speaking world superior? |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
The seven 'E2 Visa' countries - Aus, Can, Ire, NZ, UK, USA, SA - comprise 7% of the population of the world (467 million is 7% of 6,600 million).
These countries together account for 38% of world GDP. The United States (population 4.54%) alone is 27%.
See for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29
As you can see, there are three English-speaking countries in the GDP top 10 - the US, the UK and Canada. Remarkably, Australia (population 20 million) is 15th place, with a not entirely dissimilar GDP to Mexico and India. |
No. All it shows is that the English speaking world is simply riding America's coattails. Better question would be: why are the other English speaking countries such little guppies nest to the American Orca? |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
Its unfair to compare the US economy to any other country.
The US economy is a behemoth. |
Absolutely. With 4.54% of the world's population, the U.S. has 27% of the world's GDP, compared to China with 20% of the world's population and 5.4% GDP - almost the complete opposite. Absolutely stunning stat. It's a common thing though. The poorest English-speaking country is New Zealand, with only 4 million people (0.06% pop.) and 0.2% GDP. That's also remarkable. |
New Zealand is the poorest English-speaking country? Really? REALLLY? I would have named a few Caribbean islands before I would have thought of New Zealand...Or Guyana...or Liberia perhaps....
Just curious, what source did you use? |
I beg your pardon, I mean the 7 'E2 Visa' countries. Some islands we've never heard of will be the poorest English speaking country.
Source is in the OP. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
Its unfair to compare the US economy to any other country.
The US economy is a behemoth. |
Absolutely. With 4.54% of the world's population, the U.S. has 27% of the world's GDP, compared to China with 20% of the world's population and 5.4% GDP - almost the complete opposite. Absolutely stunning stat. It's a common thing though. The poorest English-speaking country is New Zealand, with only 4 million people (0.06% pop.) and 0.2% GDP. That's also remarkable. |
New Zealand is the poorest English-speaking country? Really? REALLLY? I would have named a few Caribbean islands before I would have thought of New Zealand...Or Guyana...or Liberia perhaps....
Just curious, what source did you use? |
I beg your pardon, I mean the 7 'E2 Visa' countries. Some islands we've never heard of will be the poorest English speaking country.
Source is in the OP. |
AHHH!!!
I see. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction...Don't I feel silly  |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Omkara wrote: |
| pastis wrote: |
| Omkara wrote: |
| Turns out, Asians have 2-3 IQ points advantage on average. |
Rubbish. Where's your source? |
One interesting point, the choice of your word. It's dripping with emotion. (I'm not calling you emotional--when I read the statistic, my first response was emotional too. But, since I'm Amerian, my first choice of word was something like, "B.S.!") |
I'm an American so I can relate. This time I'm calling BS.
| Quote: |
| That the average asian has 2-3 IQ points on the average white does not necessarily mean that most Asians are smarter than any one of us. I mean, we are all superior, right? I mean, don't most people think that most people are stupid, inferior? |
BS. I don't believe you that Asians have a higher IQ on average than people from anywhere else. IQ is a pretty irrelevant way to assess intelligence anyway.
| Quote: |
| But again, this is only a probablility. |
BS
| Quote: |
| Couldn't find the exact page, but the statistic is in the book called "Emotional Intelligence." It's not the greatest book in the world, but it has some interesting points. The book is done with good research methodology. So, if you want to further you inquiry, you can follow leads given in the book. |
So let me get this straight... you think you may have read this 'stat' of yours in a book once, of which you can't even provide the page number? And that if I want your source I have to go find the stupid book myself and find the page too???
Not good enough. |
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