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| Should the U.S. legalize 12 million illegal immigrants? |
| Yes |
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37% |
[ 10 ] |
| No |
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62% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yes,
Legalize them and you won't have an illegal immigrant problem.  |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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The US ought to legalize all the illegal immigrants with the speciall skills to help the US. Right away.
The others ought to be decided on a case by case basis. |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
The US ought to legalize all the illegal immigrants with the speciall skills to help the US. Right away.
The others ought to be decided on a case by case basis. |
But let's not forget that unskilled labor is also very important to the U.S. economy as well. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
The US ought to legalize all the illegal immigrants with the speciall skills to help the US. Right away.
The others ought to be decided on a case by case basis. |
Most of the immigrants they are referring to are almost entirely from Mexico, working less than minimal wage.
Almost all of the ones with special skills, I'm sure already have their proper visas and being paid extremely well. That has always been the policy. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Illegal immigrants can go and wait in line for a visa like everyone else on the planet. Just because they hopped a fence and walked a few miles they should be given a "fast track" to becoming legal immigrants?
I got relatives here in Korea thats been waiting over 10 years to get a visa to come to the US.
Hows that gonna look to them? They've gone through the system and have been waiting patiently. All of a sudden people who just up and decided to hop the fence into the US illegally get to stay while my relatives who have been working within the system get the shaft. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| merkurix wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
The US ought to legalize all the illegal immigrants with the speciall skills to help the US. Right away.
The others ought to be decided on a case by case basis. |
But let's not forget that unskilled labor is also very important to the U.S. economy as well. |
There are plenty of unemployed AMERICANS in the US who can pick apples just as well as the next guy. then again, why should they WORK for a living. They get enough assistance from the government to stay unemployed. |
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Why not just legalize everyone to solve the existing problem and be done with it? The government can then take the necessary steps to absolutely secure both borders against all future illegals (can't be that expensive compared with a war in Iraq). If this happens the USA can open and control more immigration through propper chanels from around the world. Not only would this be better for security reasons, America could avoid the social pitfall of a two classes/languages and become more of a truely multicultural/ethnic/racial society. The US can support a flow of immigration, but there is a limit to what is sustainable. Every illegal Mexican takes the spot of an eager (and often more educated and qualified) potential immigrant from another continent. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Well, most people seem to ignore the fact that realistically we can't get 12 million illegal immigrants out of the country. So its either make the citizens or have 12 million illegal folk hanging around. I think the choice is clear, we just have to be intelligent about how we go about doing it. And as for a nation of laws thing, many states have all sorts arcane laws on the books no one enforces, many states have sodime (spelling?) laws on the books, and no one is cracking down on butt sex. I mean, it is the LAW right? |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Illegal immigrants can go and wait in line for a visa like everyone else on the planet. Just because they hopped a fence and walked a few miles they should be given a "fast track" to becoming legal immigrants?
I got relatives here in Korea thats been waiting over 10 years to get a visa to come to the US.
Hows that gonna look to them? They've gone through the system and have been waiting patiently. All of a sudden people who just up and decided to hop the fence into the US illegally get to stay while my relatives who have been working within the system get the shaft. |
I agree, but we cannot shift all the blame on these guys who hop the fence. The blame needs to be aimed at the U.S. government. Slamming, harassing and vilifying illegal immigrants does absolutely nothing except stir fear, resentment and xenophobia upon otherwise innocent people whose altruistic purpose is to pursue a better life. These guys are abandoning a lot to come to the U.S. and it takes a lot of courage to pass through undetected, sticking our like a sore thumb and making an honest living to survive. It does suck for those who are patiently waiting to come here, but in the meantime there are guys who are suffering and hungry; they feel their own government has failed them, so they are turning to one that will give them hope.
The current system in place needs an overhaul. And as much as many of us complain about Korea's work visa system, it is significantly much more better and efficient than the one the U.S. currently has in place. Placing a Great Wall of China on the Mexican border is not going to work. Neither is asking our military to moonlight as immigration agents either. Here is what I propose:
There are people from Mexico who want to stay, and there are people from Mexico who just want to make as much money as they can and go back.
1.) Give them a one year worker's visa. They will need a company to sponsor their work and the company needs to provide them with a living wage or minimum wage and an adequate living space (not a migrant camp) as well as mandatory ESL classes (which can open up job opportunities for us too).
2.) Those who wish to renew their visa should take a yearly U.S. government controlled English proficiency examination, with a yearly English skill level increase. Satisfactory completion of these examinations should determine eligibility for work contract renewal. Those who fail should be ineligible to renew.
3.) After about 7 consecutive working years on a worker's visa and if the migrant worker shows enough proficiency in English, then he can be encouraged to apply for residency. If he refuses, then he should be required to continue taking yearly English profiency exams.
4.) Those who choose residency can then take steps to be legal residents with no further need for tests and should then be eligible for resident benefits.
5.) Just like they do entry checks, the U.S. should also do EXIT CHECKS on its borders. AS of now, people can keep their cars at 65 mph and zip through the border from the U.S. to Mexico. The other way around you sometimes have to keep your car idling for 3 hours waiting to get across. Once you are in, you can go back with no problem. But what should be done is instead of paying a bunch of INS troops to roam around aimlessly like camels in the desert looking for jumpers, the border guards should closely examine people exiting the U.S. Detain those without the proper visa on their passport. Fine them and hold them until they can pay. If they are unable or unwilling to pay the fine, then record their names and forbid them from ever coming back into the U.S. As it stands there is currently no such system in place, and this also requires close cooperation with the Mexican government, which currently refuses. But someday maybe the U.S. government can have a more efficient system in place.
So let's not blame the border hoppers. Let's blame the government in the north for being clumsy and inefficient with this issue and let's blame the government in the south for being so rife with corruption that its people are leaving in droves for a better life. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: |
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It's cool and all that tens of millions of people can easily emigrate to the U.S. just because they feel like it and it pays well.. but how about vice-versa?
If an American wanted to be able to vote in Mexican elections, buy land and property in Mexico, have all the legal rights.. I'm betting it would be nearly impossible.
And even if they technically possible.. would Mexico allow 12 million Americans to do it? Baby boomers retirement is coming up.. and I'm certainly sure a demand would be there.
All kinds of good stuff in there: http://directory.com.mx/immigration/
| Quote: |
| 3) A U.S. citizen who is not of Mexican descent and who therefore cannot simultaneously be legally recognized as a Mexican citizen |
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| U.S. citizens in Mexico still cannot own property within 50 kilometers of the coasts or within 100 kilometers of the border |
All kinds of laws.. what if the U.S. said that anyone of Mexican descent cannot own property 100 kilometers from the border or 50km from either of the coast?
It would be ridiculous. I'm not against Mexicans in the U.S. at all.. but if they are going to BOO our Miss USA at Beauty Pageants and go crazy with anti-americanism over us not allowing 12 million illegal Mexicans to live forever in the U.S., they should at least try to allow an American citizen who wants to live in Mexico some kind of legal rights. |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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The only beef I can see with illegals is that they don't pay tax.
So legalise them and they will and more money goes into the govs coffers.
Don't really see the problem. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| Neil wrote: |
The only beef I can see with illegals is that they don't pay tax.
So legalise them and they will and more money goes into the govs coffers.
Don't really see the problem. |
Well they do pay sales tax. Otherwise, yeah, there here, their not leaving. Lets jack um for every penny they got, we got a war to pay for. |
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cwemory
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Gunpo, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Senate Abandons Immigration Bill
NPR.org
by Brian Naylor
Morning Edition, June 8, 2007 � The chances that Congress will act on a comprehensive immigration bill this year have been dealt a possibly fatal blow in the Senate.
Supporters of the immigration bill needed 60 votes to bring nearly two weeks of debate to a close and move on to a final vote, but they couldn't muster even a majority, as nearly all Republicans and a handful of Democrats acted to block final consideration.
It was the second procedural test the measure faced and failed Thursday, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said it was time to move on, although he didn't shut the door entirely.
"I have every desire to complete this legislation and we all have to work, the president included, to figure out a way to get this bill passed," he said.
Democrats and Republicans traded charges over who was to blame for the bill's demise.
Reid said the headlines will read that the president failed because he couldn't win the support of conservative Republicans. Those conservatives said it the bill amounted to amnesty, because it would give legal status to the nation's estimated 12 million undocumented aliens.
Republicans charged it was simply that Democrats wouldn't allow them enough opportunities to amend the legislation. Minority Leader Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said given a little more time, the measure could still be approved.
"I think were giving up on this bill too soon," he said. "I like what I think I heard the majority leader say � [that] he doesn't want to give up on it either.
"I think we are a few days [from] getting to the end of what many would applaud as a bipartisan accomplishment," McConnell said.
But after days of closed-door negotiations, senators of both parties could neither overcome objections to the bill's many contentious provisions nor could they settle on a procedure to continue debate. While both sides said the bill was technically still alive, a stream of senators took to the floor to eulogize the measure.
But not taking action was just fine with many senators from both parties.
"I was not going to support a piece of legislation that's not going to work," said Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL).
The measure was dubbed the "grand bargain" by its authors, who cobbled it together behind closed doors. It would have changed the way visas are issued from a system based on family ties to one based on merit. It also contained a guest worker provision, and new requirements for employers to verify the identities and legal status of their workers.
But critics from all sides assailed the measure as unworkable. Despite the optimism that it might yet be reconsidered, chances for the bill appear bleak. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| That would mean 12 million people who now qualify for minimum wage. Would the companies who employ them then fire them and import new illegals? |
I bet you ownership of the Colombian woman who flushes the toilet for my wealthy neighbors back home that the answer would be "yes"
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| I'm undecided on the issue, but I'm pretty sure the problem's source is the businesses who employ illegal immigrants. Is there language in this immigration reform that addresses such hiring practices? |
Shhh.... Businesses are not to be held accountable for the problems they create. That's what godless commies do! Do you want to destroy the economy?!
Now, a giant fence along the border will not only create jobs, it'll also make for a great tourist attraction. Look at how well the Great Wall worked out for China. |
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