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kiwioutofthenest
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Corporal:
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| How do you know the kids aren't doing it of their own free will? You say the parents dragged them there. Did you see the kids being dragged there kicking and screaming? Unless you did, I suggest you not invent details merely for the purpose of furthering your agenda. Children of eight, nine, ten and so on are perfectly able to comprehend the reality of abortion and offer their own unsolicited views on the subject. Why shouldn't a child object to the practice of killing children? Because they are smaller and younger does that mean they have less of a right to open their mouths? |
They may be doing it of their own fee will but i doubt if their opinions are developed enough to understand why or what they are protesting.
When i was younger i was involved in a anti-abortion protest, i knew what i was protesting but in hindsight i would never have done it. It is easy to take the moral high ground when the subject is far removed from your reality.... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| When i was younger i was involved in a anti-abortion protest, i knew what i was protesting but in hindsight i would never have done it. It is easy to take the moral high ground when the subject is far removed from your reality.... |
Where you forced to attend this protest by some authority figure, or did you attend on your own free will? And, do you think that any kids who might have protested for what you now see as the correct position were any more well-informed than you were? |
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kiwioutofthenest
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| I wasn't forced...just tagged along with a bunch of people from my youth group as i had nothing better to do on the given saturday. I think that the majority of the kids partaking were in the same boat. Sure there were probabally kids there that still agree with why they were protesting but at the time we were just passionate about being passionate about something...if that makes any sense? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| wasn't forced...just tagged along with a bunch of people from my youth group as i had nothing better to do on the given saturday. I think that the majority of the kids partaking were in the same boat. Sure there were probabally kids there that still agree with why they were protesting but at the time we were just passionate about being passionate about something...if that makes any sense? |
Indeed it does. I'm sure you could say the same thing about many people who protest, minors or adults. As well, many people who vote are totally clueless as well, and THEY actually have an effect on policy.
I guess I just don't think that you really did any harm to yourself or others by going to that protest. |
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Zed
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| I remember going to a protest when I was about 10 against building a nuclear plant down the road from our town with my mother and brother and sister. That was simply because my mother wasn't going to leave us at home and didn't want to pay a babysitter. I think she probably thought it was educational as well. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| That was simply because my mother wasn't going to leave us at home and didn't want to pay a babysitter. I think she probably thought it was educational as well. |
And she was probably right about that. I was forced to attend Catholic mass every Sunday for about 20 years, and while I eventually rejected Catholicism, I still think it was a good experience. I can now recite entire parts of an historically important religious ceremony from memory.
I do have a problem with teachers in public schools encouraging students to protest on a particular side og an issue, as this strikes me as an abuse of the school system, comparable to a census taker getting the people he interviews to sign petitions in favour of his pet cause. |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| So if a 14-year-old girl gets pregnant but wants to keep the baby because she believes (even though she can't really articulate why) it wouldn't be right to abort it, her parents should go ahead and send her to an abortion clinic? Because they have more education and life experience than she does? |
Corporal:
Would you be so hopped about teenagers' rights if the 14 year old was the one who wanted to have the abortion and the parents were objecting? |
I'm objecting to the assumption that a young person is less able to have an educated viewpoint on something than a person who simply happens to be older. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm objecting to the assumption that a young person is less able to have an educated viewpoint on something than a person who simply happens to be older. |
So, the teenage girl has read a dozen scholarly books covering both sides of the abortion debate, and decided that she wants to terminate her pregnancy. The parents have read nothing about the subject, but are opposed to it for religious reasons. Do you think the parents should permit the girl to have an abortion simply because she is better informed than they are? |
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Drakoi
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Location: The World
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| whatthefunk wrote: |
| Its ignorance and selfishness. I had a group of 14 year old kids yell 'F*cking USA' at me one day. |
arooo? I say that all the time. Well no, I usually F*cking Bush. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| whatthefunk wrote: |
| Its ignorance and selfishness. I had a group of 14 year old kids yell 'F*cking USA' at me one day. |
Hope you shouted back F*cking KOREA! |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| I'm objecting to the assumption that a young person is less able to have an educated viewpoint on something than a person who simply happens to be older. |
So, the teenage girl has read a dozen scholarly books covering both sides of the abortion debate, and decided that she wants to terminate her pregnancy. The parents have read nothing about the subject, but are opposed to it for religious reasons. Do you think the parents should permit the girl to have an abortion simply because she is better informed than they are? |
We already agreed to stay away from the pro-life pro-choice discussion. Since you don't seem to want to let it go, in retrospect I probably should have used a different analogy. However my point was and still remains that just because you see a ten-year-old protesting abortion does not mean he/she was dragged there and/or bribed to participate.
Kids can think too. They often don't, but they can. I really don't see how there is anything further to debate here. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| arooo? I say that all the time. Well no, I usually F*cking Bush. |
Very big difference, and one which I hope you fully understand the ramifications of. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| We already agreed to stay away from the pro-life pro-choice discussion. Since you don't seem to want to let it go, in retrospect I probably should have used a different analogy. |
Ah, but you didn't use a different analogy, now did you? You chose an example in which you happen to agree with the opinions of the teenager. The point I was trying to make is that I think people tend to recognize the validity of children's opinions when they agree with those opinions, and dismiss them as "immature" when they disagree, regardless of how mature or immature the child actually is.
I wonder how many of the pro-Americans on this board who dismiss ten year olds shouting F*cking USA as ill-informed would feel the same way about ten year olds participationg in a pro-USA march? |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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On the other hand
However, I agree with a seperate lane for fire engines, but I still query the use of children in protesting. |
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