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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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One has to ask though, if humans are the cause of global warming, how do you account for the warming on OTHER planets such as Mars?
Are our greenhouse gases reaching across thousands and thousands of miles of icy space to warm that up?  |
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cosmo
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Next post on topic, please, or you will be roundly ignored. |
1. You didn't know that President Bush is often referred to as GW.
2. You didn't know that George Washington was the first USA President.
3. You didn't know former Presidents are referred to as "Mister President" because they retain their title, as a military officer does.
4. You didn't ignore me.
5. You didn't know it, but you lied about ignoring me.
6. Above all, you said from the start, you didn't know what this thread is about.
You said I made a "stupid, stupid, mistake."
You made six stupid, stupid mistakes, while I was right on target.
I am the one who enlightened you. 
EFLTrainer
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:25 pm
"Hell, I'm not even clear what this thread is about..." |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
One has to ask though, if humans are the cause of global warming, how do you account for the warming on OTHER planets such as Mars?
Are our greenhouse gases reaching across thousands and thousands of miles of icy space to warm that up? |
Red herring.
Each has it's own climate, it's own atmosphere, it's own geography (well, some have geography), it's own orbit and it's own spin. Connecting warming on the other planets with Earth's warming is a far bigger stretch than measuring CO2, measuring the temperatures and coming to the conclusion human actions are having an effect on current warming. This is particularly true when one looks at time scales. I find it highly unlikely that all the planets are seeing warming, let alone the very accelerated warming the earth is seeing now.
While all planets probably follow the basic cycles of the suns effcts, try no to forget those effects are not so much the SUN as they are the Earth's particular orbit and spin. All eight planets likely have different cycles related to the sun that are determined primarily by their orbits. They may all be in sync, of course.
All that said, the one study everyone points to about the sun warming the earth ahs been debunked and the IPCC specifically stated they hadlooked at the sun's influence and found it negligible with regard to the relatively short-term warming we are dealing with. Again, the relationship between the sun and Earth climate seems to work on very long cycles. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
One has to ask though, if humans are the cause of global warming, how do you account for the warming on OTHER planets such as Mars?
Are our greenhouse gases reaching across thousands and thousands of miles of icy space to warm that up? |
. I find it highly unlikely that all the planets are seeing warming, let alone the very accelerated warming the earth is seeing now.
. |
http://www.cigem.gov.cn/En_readnews.asp?NewsID=10887
According to this link temperatures on Mars have risen FOUR times as fast as the Earth. Now greenhouse gases can NOT account for that. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
One has to ask though, if humans are the cause of global warming, how do you account for the warming on OTHER planets such as Mars?
Are our greenhouse gases reaching across thousands and thousands of miles of icy space to warm that up? |
. I find it highly unlikely that all the planets are seeing warming, let alone the very accelerated warming the earth is seeing now.
. |
http://www.cigem.gov.cn/En_readnews.asp?NewsID=10887
According to this link temperatures on Mars have risen FOUR times as fast as the Earth. Now greenhouse gases can NOT account for that. |
First, why? Second, you've just made a good argument in favor of human-influenced warming here. Third, the statement on that site is incorrect. Warming on Earth has been over that time, but with the bulk of the warming coming in the last two or three decades. Further, it was slowed by a couple of volcanic eruptions.
I have no problem with finding out the sun is playing a larger part than most currently believe. Most deniers like to pretend those who support adjustments to global warming for the sake of mitigating the speed of change and enhancing our ability to adapt actually want climate change to be a huge problem. Stupid, and wrong.
Let me reiterate: what is happening on Mars is likely a local event. If not, then they will sort that out soon enough. Scientists are not ignoring the idea, they just don't see it as a major cause of the recent rapid warming. If the two things are related, you would expect slower reaction on earth due to the dense atmosphere which provides a number of CO2 and heat sinks, while Mars has virtually none. All that water in the soil is going to put a lot more moisture in the atmosphere. Water is a far stronger agent of global warming than CO2. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: |
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It's coming and you can't stop it. Shut down all the factories. Stop all the cars and trucks. The earth will warm perhaps for a few hundred years. There will be tropical weather into the arctic circle. Methane and Carbon Dioxide, and even Nitrogen will dominate the atmosphere. The ice caps will melt, Antarctica will become a militarized protected enclave fortified by the Argentines. Desert will be the state of the other continents.
All this will happen and there is nothing you can do.
But come the next ice age, then the Elves will return after centuries in the mountains high above the deserts. The elves will come finally with dominion over all. They will make of the Earth a green and wonderful place of true harmony, free from the sins of man, and there will be no trolls. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
One has to ask though, if humans are the cause of global warming, how do you account for the warming on OTHER planets such as Mars?
Are our greenhouse gases reaching across thousands and thousands of miles of icy space to warm that up? |
. I find it highly unlikely that all the planets are seeing warming, let alone the very accelerated warming the earth is seeing now.
. |
http://www.cigem.gov.cn/En_readnews.asp?NewsID=10887
According to this link temperatures on Mars have risen FOUR times as fast as the Earth. Now greenhouse gases can NOT account for that. |
First, why? Second, you've just made a good argument in favor of human-influenced warming here. Third, the statement on that site is incorrect. Warming on Earth has been over that time, but with the bulk of the warming coming in the last two or three decades. . |
And the bulk of the warming on Mars has come during the same period as well though. Concidence?
Anyway been interesting..but I guess we'll find out who was right in the next 20 years or so. 'night. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
One has to ask though, if humans are the cause of global warming, how do you account for the warming on OTHER planets such as Mars?
Are our greenhouse gases reaching across thousands and thousands of miles of icy space to warm that up? |
. I find it highly unlikely that all the planets are seeing warming, let alone the very accelerated warming the earth is seeing now.
. |
http://www.cigem.gov.cn/En_readnews.asp?NewsID=10887
According to this link temperatures on Mars have risen FOUR times as fast as the Earth. Now greenhouse gases can NOT account for that. |
First, why? Second, you've just made a good argument in favor of human-influenced warming here. Third, the statement on that site is incorrect. Warming on Earth has been over that time, but with the bulk of the warming coming in the last two or three decades. . |
And the bulk of the warming on Mars has come during the same period as well though. Concidence? |
Most likely. Does it really matter? We know the role of CO2 as a source of positive feedback in the system. The only thing we can do to slow warming is to reduce greenhouse emissions. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE PRIMARY, SECONDARY, TERTIARY, ETC., CAUSES ARE!!!!! The deniers want to get all the blame off human causes so they can keep making money the way they always have. It is that simple. It is also this simple: our only hope of slowing things down so we and the planet have more time to adapt is to cut emissions, so arguing about it is, frankly - and I mean it sincerely - ab so fucking lutely stupid.
We are past causes and on to solutions. Most deniers are morally repugnant to me given the basics at work here. Those that have been fooled and blinded, well, they're just _____. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Here are some things to consider:
Mars warming:
Chances are good that mars warming (faster than earth) is likely due to the fact that it has no atmosphere and therefore, has the ability to heat up relatively quickly.
The tradeoff is that, without an atmosphere, that same heat is easily able to escape.
Now, if our current atmosphere has the ability to trap copious amounts of heat; and CO2 and other (more certainly) Greenhouse gases trap heat with added efficiency (as the GW theory speculates), then our atmosphere will not cool down as fast as mars.
What does this mean? Well first off, it doesn't disprove the Greenhouse theory at all. In fact, it makes it easier to understand.
To clarify:
When scientists say that "humans are making the earth hotter", they aren't saying really saying that humans are making more heat. They're saying "humans are making it more difficult for heat energy to escape from the earth's atmosphere".
And as best as I can tell, the National geographic article and this quote in particular:
| Quote: |
| "Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said. |
appears to be somewhat of a misnomer.
In the end, the theory is based on whether CO2 and other greenhouse gases trap heat. The source of the heat is inconcequential; it is the entrapment of the heat (as GW proponents say) which is the problem. |
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cosmo
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
Here are some things to consider:
Mars warming:
Chances are good that mars warming (faster than earth) is likely due to the fact that it has no atmosphere and therefore, has the ability to heat up relatively quickly.
The tradeoff is that, without an atmosphere, that same heat is easily able to escape.
Now, if our current atmosphere has the ability to trap copious amounts of heat; and CO2 and other (more certainly) Greenhouse gases trap heat with added efficiency (as the GW theory speculates), then our atmosphere will not cool down as fast as mars.
What does this mean? Well first off, it doesn't disprove the Greenhouse theory at all. In fact, it makes it easier to understand.
To clarify:
When scientists say that "humans are making the earth hotter", they aren't saying really saying that humans are making more heat. They're saying "humans are making it more difficult for heat energy to escape from the earth's atmosphere".
And as best as I can tell, the National geographic article and this quote in particular:
| Quote: |
| "Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said. |
appears to be somewhat of a misnomer.
In the end, the theory is based on whether CO2 and other greenhouse gases trap heat. The source of the heat is inconcequential; it is the entrapment of the heat (as GW proponents say) which is the problem. |
Habibullo Abdussamatov, born in Samarkand in Uzbekistan in 1940, graduated from Samarkand University in 1962 as a physicist and a mathematician. He earned his doctorate at Pulkovo Observatory and the University of Leningrad.
He is the head of the space research laboratory of the Russian Academies of Sciences' Pulkovo Observatory and of the International Space Station's Astrometry project, a long-term joint scientific research project of the Russian and Ukranian space agencies.
So, now you are setting yourself up to be a wizard compared to this scientist.
No wonder, since you deny what 17,000 scientists say.
You sure like to go around calling people liars, like you did on the same sex marriage thread.
But I already explained that because you are like the boy who cried WOLF!
What are your credentials, Brainiac?
You challenged me to justify what I said by posting my resume on this board,
Why don't you post your resume here, you HYPOCRITE! |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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This guy is gonna be a real joy to have around....
it ain't about your ego, son.
Move on, eh? Back to the topic? |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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cosmo,
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So, now you are setting yourself up to be a wizard compared to this scientist.
No wonder, since you deny what 17,000 scientists say.
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1) Sorry, could you point out where I said he was WRONG???
1) Weren't you the transgender that said you "Recognized several names on the list"? Well I would assume that it took you a good 10 seconds to find the names of these people you "worked with".
But you quote 17,000 scientists when even a 5 second scan of the names makes it clear that close to 3/5 or more, of the names present don't have an M.A. or Phd. Not only that but there are some companies that have signed their name to the list. So it seems specious on your part to claim 17,000 scientists.
As I previously pointed out, a preliminary study of the document shows that there are a TOTAL of about 3,000Phd holders in that and of those, only about 600 have studied in a climate related field (personally, I wouldn't listen to a structural engineer when discussing GW but that's just me).
| Quote: |
You sure like to go around calling people liars, like you did on the same sex marriage thread.....
You challenged me to justify what I said by posting my resume on this board. Why don't you post your resume here, you HYPOCRITE! |
You've gone a bit psycho there chum. I'm fairly certain I didn't say that. And unless you're visiting christianforums.com, I doubt I called you a liar in any same sex marriage thread.
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/sun-on-earth/glob-warm.html*
| Quote: |
| Some uncertainty remains about the role of natural variations in causing climate change. Solar variability certainly plays a minor role, but it looks like only a quarter of the recent variations can be attributed to the Sun. At most. During the initial discovery period of global warming, the magnitude of the influence of increased activity on the Sun was not well determined. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
| You've gone a bit psycho there chum. |
A bit? The man is a full on nutbar, on par with meegook (the fundy christian who divorced his wife, in full violation of his vows to god... but he saw nothing wrong with that). |
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cosmo
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Pope reveals monsterous arrogance...
This pope is a major ahole.
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In my case,
I'd rather be a major ahole
than a minor bunghole like
mindmetoosh.
SUMBUDDY STOP ME! |
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