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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: |
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There are new people about, and seeing that the niqab thread keeps getting hits, I thought this might be of interest.
And some people might enjoy discussing the issue, rather than just taking snarky pot shots at other posters.
I went to a party last week, and was joined by my Omani friend, who wears a hijab. She started asking one of the (muslim) Indonesian students, who was covered from head to toe, why the hell she wanted to walk about in a niqab. Interesting discussion ensued. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Snarky reply:
You should have asked them why it is acceptable for a grownup to let their imaginary friend chose for them their attire. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting discussion ensued.
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So what were the main points? From what I have read, it seems that the full covering is more culturally determined than religious but is currently being used to express a fundamental perspective.
I am curious as to what others think. I still blame wahabism and short sightedness on the part of governments as the main reason for the problems we face today.
But I have given up caring really now. What do you do with a rabid dog? You lock it up and keep others safe from it or you shoot it. Extremism is pushing people into a corner and some day they will push back. [/quote] |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
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Interesting discussion ensued.
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So what were the main points? From what I have read, it seems that the full covering is more culturally determined than religious but is currently being used to express a fundamental perspective.
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The Omani girl felt a bit disconcerted I think, and very curious. She is my classmate, and so is the Indonesian husband of the niqabed woman, and we were all sat around having some tea. When a couple of guys left, and it was just us, she unveiled her face. At that point my Omani friend just couldn't hold her tongue anymore and wanted to know why. First she objected that the Koran says nothing about covering the face, and that indeed, as she understands it, you are supposed to show your face and your hands. But the Indonesian couple think it's a higher level of devotion. They don't believe everyone has to do it, but that the more you cover and the more hassle you put yourself through, the better muslim you are. [This thinking personally disturbs me, as it is now making muslim girls feel they are not quite godly enough as the girl next door, and so they feel a new pressure to veil that wasn't there previously. As you point out, it is cultural, but in Britain today there are girls donning the niqab whose parents come from cultures where niqabs don't exist].
The other reason they gave is that it made them feel more secure. He feels secure in clothing that is clearly ostentatious in Western society, and she feels more secure behind her veil. I actually speculated that she was quite shy (didn't speak English well) and this was a coping mechanism for her. They talked a lot more about it, but I'm not going to write an essay on it.
My Omani friend was rather uncomfortable about it. The Indonesians segregated their party, and my husband had to stay outside with the men, while I went to eat with the women, some who veiled as they left the room. Others were dressed as westerners with no head cover.
Apparently in Oman girls can mix freely with guys in social situations, and there is no need for a veil. And she had no issue talking to the men. They are always dressed modestly, and so they are ready at anytime to be in the company of men (provided they are chaperoned or in mixed company).
This is in contrast to Saudi girls I know. I have a Saudi classmate who invited me to her party. I didn't understand that I couldn't bring my husband at first, and luckily that arose by chance in conversation before I went. When I arrived, some of the ladies were arriving in long dresses and veils. But as there were no men around, they took off their veil and capes and were all dressed up to the nines! Loads of make up, short tight sexy skirts, you name it!! Some of them looked like prostitutes! But beautiful, just overdone. Having said that, some of the Saudi girls are not wearing veils or even hijabs because it is attracting a lot of negative attention, and some of them have been attacked. So some of them arrived with no head covering, or baseball caps, or in one case a big reggae hat that covered her hair. I spoke to the latter about it, and she said her husband had persuaded her not to wear any head covering, because he was very frightened that would be harrassed (quite a common occurence for the foreign students) but she couldn't get used to it, and felt practically naked. (I suppose it must feel the way a western girl would feel having to walk topless in public). So she compromised with the reggae hat. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Jack is absolutely right about this. They need to decide whether they want to integrate with their host culture or not. If they don't they should leave. I for one would refuse to enter into any business transaction, even serving someone at a convenience store, if they refused to show their face. It's all just so pathetic it's laughable. These backwards primitives make even fundamentalist christians look worldly. |
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