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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Who Does Not Stereotype Others...? |
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People often accuse one or another national culture, race, ethnicity, sex, what-have-you, of stereotyping them. And that this makes the stereotypers bad, bad people.
Conversely, those who do not stereotype are good.
Just curious to know if there is anyone on the planet we can point to and say, yeah, they have never unfairly reduced the Other to a stereotype. As the Holy Bible says, I think: let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.
Well, then, who has not sinned on this issue? The Chinese, the Koreans, the Brazilians, the Congolese, Christians, Jews, Muslims, men, women, heteros, gays, whites, blacks...who exactly are the righteous ones?
Anyone have any specific examples that they are prepared to cite and defend here? |
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twg

Joined: 02 Nov 2006 Location: Getting some fresh air...
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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There are no perfect human beings.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't put in the minor effort it takes to not reduce the world to a simpleton's explanation just for the convenience of our prejudices.
So if the point of this exercise is to suggest, "They do it, so it's okay for us to do it too." then I'm afraid it's morally incorrect from the get go. |
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JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I've stereotyped you as one of those people who posts idiotic questions.
You know the answer. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, JMO. I in turn have stereotyped you as one of those posters who tries too hard to be witty.
twg wrote: |
...to suggest, "They do it, so it's okay for us to do it too." then I'm afraid it's morally incorrect from the get go. |
There you go again, Twg, twisting and mischaracterizing my words.
Show me where I said this -- that is, that stereotyping is all right since everybody does it.
My point is this: if everybody does it (and we agree that it is unacceptable, but unfortunately a part of the human repertoire) then it seems disingenuous to single out and criticize one or another group for doing it, as if to imply that they are the sole offenders or even invented the thing -- or that others are merely and passively victimized by it but do not themselves contribute to it.
Makes about as much sense as criticizing someone's position for lacking "objectivity." Or if you want me to use an easy metaphor for you: like a pot calling a kettle black.
So we can criticize a larger, abstract problem without using it as a pretext to attack one or another group that happens to momentarily appear on our "list..." |
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JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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I wasn't trying to be witty. It is an idiotic question because you already know the answer. Why not come right out in the first post and give your argument?
This should have been your first post.
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My point is this: if everybody does it (and we agree that it is unacceptable, but unfortunately a part of the human repertoire) then it seems disingenuous to single out and criticize one or another group for doing it, as if to imply that they are the sole offenders or even invented the thing -- or that others are merely and passively victimized by it but do not themselves contribute to it.
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BTW is that not akin to saying because cultural groups/people have practiced genocide then those groups cannot condemn this action in others?
Last edited by JMO on Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Here, Twg, is the report my question responds to, by the way...
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...a USOC worker scrawled "Welcome to the Congo!" on a board in the organization's Rio de Janeiro media center for the Pan American Games...
The USOC issued a "deep apology to the people of Brazil and Rio de Janeiro" in a statement Saturday [7 July 2007], and said the worker who wrote the phrase was disciplined and is no longer a member of the U.S. delegation to the games...
On Rio's Copacabana Beach, Brazilians said it reinforced their belief that Americans frequently stereotype other countries.
"Americans are full of prejudices," said Alessandra Teixeira, a 29-year old model. "Everything for them is bad, and they make it worse." |
Sports Illustrated
I think this official should not represent American atheletes or any other American interests for that matter abroad. His "joke" proved insensitive and tasteless.
On the other hand, I find it particularly rich that Teixeira and the other Cariocas this Rio indignant newsteam interviewed on the beach would respond by -- lo and behold! -- stereotyping all Americans. Also, I know for a fact that Brazilians regularly tell "jokes" about the Portuguese (and others) the way Americans tell "jokes" about Polacks -- or blondes, for that matter. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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JMO wrote: |
BTW is that not akin to saying because cultural groups/people have practiced genocide then those groups cannot condemn this action in others? |
Would you like to start placing felons on juries...? Or nation-states like the Sudan or former leaders like Augusto Pinochet on Human-Rights Commissions...? |
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JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
JMO wrote: |
BTW is that not akin to saying because cultural groups/people have practiced genocide then those groups cannot condemn this action in others? |
Would you like to start placing felons on juries...? Or nation-states like the Sudan or former leaders like Augusto Pinochet on Human-Rights Commissions...? |
Once again with the questions that you already know the answers to. Is this your style of debate?
You said groups. For example the nation of Germany carried out genocide in world war II. That shouldn't mean that a German cannot condemn genocide.
I would agree it would be hypocritical for one person to stereotype another and then accuse someone else of the same. I'm not sure what you mean by groups though. Individually this argument could make sense but not when extended to groups of people. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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JMO wrote: |
That shouldn't mean that a German cannot condemn genocide... |
Sure they can. But it did sound a little funny hearing the Germans call the Americans "warmongers" when Washington was preparing to move against Iraq...
But I know what you mean. How about this small group of Cariocas on the beach, then, JMO...
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On Rio's Copacabana Beach, Brazilians said it reinforced their belief that Americans frequently stereotype other countries.
"Americans are full of prejudices," said Alessandra Teixeira, a 29-year old model. "Everything for them is bad, and they make it worse." |
Does this strike you as problematic -- indeed, hypocritical? |
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JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
JMO wrote: |
That shouldn't mean that a German cannot condemn genocide... |
Sure they can. But it did sound a little funny hearing the Germans call the Americans "warmongers" when Washington was preparing to move against Iraq...
But I know what you mean. How about this small group of Cariocas on the beach, then, JMO...
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On Rio's Copacabana Beach, Brazilians said it reinforced their belief that Americans frequently stereotype other countries.
"Americans are full of prejudices," said Alessandra Teixeira, a 29-year old model. "Everything for them is bad, and they make it worse." |
Does this strike you as problematic -- indeed, hypocritical? |
Yea thats definitly hypocritical. Being sterotyped reinforced their stereotypes:) |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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If you're saying that we should refrain from criticising the act of stereotyping just because it's widespread then I don't agree. Neither do I think that all groups stereotype to the same degree and with the same level of perniciousness. Neither do I think all generalisations are wrong or invalid if they are based in some kind of assessable factual reality. So, to say "Koreans are racist nationalistic xenophobes" is a ridiculous statement, but all you have to do is add "A large proportion of..." to the sentence and you are making a reasonable statement based on factual data. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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JMO wrote: |
Being ster[e]otyped reinforced their stereotypes... |
Exactly! That is precisely what I am talking about.
Last edited by Gopher on Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cerriowen
Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Location: Pocheon
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Humans stereotype.
In order to cope with the constant barrage of new information and new situations, our minds try to recognize patters, which will enable us to predict the outcome of a given situation. We need a sense of security.
In order to do that, our minds naturally put every person, place, and thing in to a category of accepted outcomes.
This lets our brains dismiss a lot of the information and decisions that it would otherwise have to make.
So every person, no matter how "enlightened" they think they are, have stereotypes about people they may not even know about. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
But I know what you mean. How about this small group of Cariocas on the beach, then, JMO...
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On Rio's Copacabana Beach, Brazilians said it reinforced their belief that Americans frequently stereotype other countries.
"Americans are full of prejudices," said Alessandra Teixeira, a 29-year old model. "Everything for them is bad, and they make it worse." |
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Haha! Now that's satire... |
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Alyallen

Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: |
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Cerriowen wrote: |
Humans stereotype.
In order to cope with the constant barrage of new information and new situations, our minds try to recognize patters, which will enable us to predict the outcome of a given situation. We need a sense of security.
In order to do that, our minds naturally put every person, place, and thing in to a category of accepted outcomes.
This lets our brains dismiss a lot of the information and decisions that it would otherwise have to make.
So every person, no matter how "enlightened" they think they are, have stereotypes about people they may not even know about. |
Yeah, what he (or she) said. It's not a matter of having stereotypes...it's a matter of acting on them and using them as a guide on individuals...That is where problems ensue.
And besides....stereotypes aren't a good judge of many people. My friend is half-Palestinian and half - Puerto Rican (true story) how exactly do you stereotype someone like that. Either you are incredibly inventive or you don't. Ultimately, people need to look beyond their stereotypes and get to know the individual. Over reliance on stereotypes is the slippery slope to dehumanizing people and just plain murdering them without guilt...(yeah..I know it's a huge leap but you get what I mean...) |
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