Korean Job Discussion Forums

[On the other hand]

[some waygug-in]

I think a lot of the anti-American sentiment that was mentioned earlier in this thread stems from a strong disapproval of American foreign policy.
Canadians hate war (at least the ones I know) and have a strong distrust of the "let's go kick some butt" attitude that they see in American movies and popular culture.

Perhaps many Canadians are naive to believe that there can always be a peaceful solution.... perhaps they just think it's foolish to blindly follow the Americans everywhere.... or maybe Canucks are just a bunch of rednecked hicks who don't know any better than to whine about America....

but last time I checked, at least Canada has an apparatus for removing unpopular governments and are not afraid to use it from time to time.

[sundubuman]

Your understanding of Canadian anti-Americanism lacks a certain....psychological angle on the issue.

To think that Canadians would somehow change their complex feelings towards the States if only we changed our foreign policy is simplistic at best.

[some waygug-in]

Maybe you're right, but it sure would be a start in the right direction.

[sundubuman]

I disagree. Having Canadians change their feelings about their ONLY NEIGHBOR based on that neighbor's elected government........

is not wise, regardless of which government Americans choose.


The underlying issues need to be dealt with.

[crusher_of_heads]

[bonanzabucks]

[some waygug-in]

[Sooke]

I think some of these guys want us to say "Canada hates the US for no other reason than petty jealousy" or something along those lines. As is often the case, it is not a black and white issue.

The current 'Anti-Americanism' in Canada is a tad overstated, especially on this board. Sure there are some people who dislike the American way of doing things, but there are plenty of Americans who have the same opinion. I tend to think that American conservatives cannot accept the fact that a country so similar culturally, economically, etc does not just become a part of the states (Was it Reagan who said that he didn't want Canada in the Union because it would add 20 million Democrats to the voter lists?Somebody said it.)

I think that Canada's baby-boomers were very influenced by America and American culture. They grew up with American TV and Movies and an American culture that some would call 'a Golden Age' (cars, American dream suburbs, malls, movies etc.) A contemporary theme in Canadian media at the time, at least from what I can remember as a kid, was that Canada wasn't as rich or as fancy as the US. There were always a lot of jokes, especially on the CBC, about how Canada couldn't do as much as the US (smaller budgets, smaller talent pools, etc.)

When I was growing up, the government started promoting Canadian nationalism, with their NFB vignettes and history moments, Canadianized textbooks (with metric) which probably went a long way in promoting the idea of a country that was not the same as the US. Then, the marketers hopped on the badwagon, and that gave us such shining examples of Canadian culture as the Molson beer commercial and other stupid cack. I would hardly call that 'anti-American'. Maybe the baby-boomers' kids rebelled against their parents insecurities by overcompensating their nationalism.

Bottom line, disagreements do not make somebody Anti "_________". You may have disagreed with your father on certain issues growing up, but were you labeled Anti-parent? It's not like there are Canadian nationalist terrorist groups plotting the overthrow the US government. That's what I would consider anti-American.

What are some of the disagreements between the two countries that lead some on this board to call Canadians 'Anti-American'?

-Free Trade: While I didn't support it at the beginning, it seems to have worked itself out, and now I realize the value of the agreement, and support it. However, with things like softwood lumber, there are tariffs placed on it in violation of the agreement. In a similar situation, wouldn't Americans get angry. (Think of how much pissing and moaning we hear about American beef in Korea-it is an unfair issue against the states, and people complain. Natural, no?)

-Iraq: Many Canadians didn't support the Iraq invasion (as well as many Americans) because they did not see the link between Iraq and terrorism. Well, its there now, and there is some cleaning up to do. Whether Canadian solders are there or not, the government hasn't officially supported the invasion. Troops on exchange would be expected to remain in the unit and be a member of that unit until their orders were changed. This is not only SOP (Americans serving with Canadians would do the same thing) but it also gives these soldiers valuable experience which could then be passed on to troops training for Afghanistan and other future adventures.

-Vietnam?: Some Americans still get pretty pissy about Canada not going to Vietnam (officially). I even got into a fistfight with a young American who was getting in my face about it (I could handle the name calling, but when a beer was thrown in my face and was taunted with 'Canadians never fight back because they're pussies' it was on.) This was in the Phillipines, and we were both loaded. Neither of us was born before Vietnam even ended, so it is pretty ridiculous. Personally, I don't have a problem with the Vietnam war, it's history. And really, all the war did was kill lots of people and delay Vietnam's eventual capitalist development.

-Other issues: I don't think people like to hear things like :"You're not even a real country" or "You should thank us for not taking you over", or "We saved your ass in the war". Regardless of the country a person comes from, regardless of whether it is true, these things are not received well. I'm sure your grandfathers were fighting on Omaha beach thinking "well, when this war is over and Hitler is licked, I hope my snotty grandchildren will throw my sacrifice in everyone's face. That's what it's all about."

When one looks at Canadian history, the entire country has been founded as a reaction to the US. The war of 1812 created a mindset different than the American one (Some of you will not concede this mindset as being a 'canadian' one because 'duh, Canada didn't exist in 1812, duh', so let's just call it a 'not-American' mindset.) Confederation in 1867 was in response to two American events: The US Civil War (which ended with hundreds of thousands of armed and trained Union troops-hmmm where can they go next?) and the 'Annexation of Canada bill (1866) tabled, but not voted on, of course. One cannot forget the Fenian raids, which showed how unprepared for invasion Canada really was. D'oh, BNA better get it's act together. (Actually, the Fathers of Confederation looked at the American Constitution very closely to try and create a document that would not lead to a civil war, which resulted in our provinces having less rights than US states, in the hopes that a similar tragedy would not occur in Canada). I could go on, but you get the point.

Logically, Canada should be part of the US, but it is not. Somehow, somewhere, the people chose to not be American. Is that anti-Americanism? If so, then oh well.

Maybe its just better to say "Canadians hate America for no reason then petty jealousy", and you can go back to feeling superior and mighty. Thank you for not kicking our ass.

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[quote="bonanzabucks"]

[Gopher]

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