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WTF.....PROTESTS AGAINST WHAT...
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mercury



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Pusan

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: WTF.....PROTESTS AGAINST WHAT... Reply with quote

Yonhap Feature) Korean adoptees from abroad and birth mothers protest overseas adoption

By Kim Young-gyo
SEOUL, Aug. 5 (Yonhap) - Roh Myung-ja has gotten together with her son every year since 2004, when she was reunited with him after giving him up for adoption about 30 years ago. She is one of thousands of Korean women whose children were adopted overseas.

The 49-year-old Roh believes what she has experienced in the years before her son returned to her should not happen to anyone. Now, she works as a staff member of Mindeulae, (Dandelions), a civic group of South Korean parents whose children were adopted overseas and who oppose the nation's adoption system, which sends thousands of orphaned and abandoned children abroad.





What do they want to do with them, keep them in the orphanges and have them raised in a society that rejects children with no families........ Idea



DONT ADOPT US, WE WANT TO BE REJECTS IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!
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taobenli



Joined: 26 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do some research before you post. In the years following the Korean war, until things began to improve economically for the country, many women were tricked into putting their children into orphanages, assured that the orphanages would look after their children until they were economically able to resume care for them themselves. However, as a money-making scheme (since overseas adoption=$) the orphanages sent these children abroad often without families' consent or knowledge. Thus, many foreign adoptees (some of whom were adopted when they were old enough to remember everything about life in Korea and their birth family) and birth mothers protest international adoption. I think I would too...

I'm happy to provide sources later but don't have time right now...
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Alyallen



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taobenli wrote:
Do some research before you post. In the years following the Korean war, until things began to improve economically for the country, many women were tricked into putting their children into orphanages, assured that the orphanages would look after their children until they were economically able to resume care for them themselves. However, as a money-making scheme (since overseas adoption=$) the orphanages sent these children abroad often without families' consent or knowledge. Thus, many foreign adoptees (some of whom were adopted when they were old enough to remember everything about life in Korea and their birth family) and birth mothers protest international adoption. I think I would too...

I'm happy to provide sources later but don't have time right now...


Fine...protest in the 60s, 70s, 80s, hell even the 90s, but you are going to tell me that those kids would be treated any better now? Do you think that people are being tricked into putting their kids up for adoption now? People give them up because they can't take care of them. How selfish is it to "abandon" your kids to the system but disallow them the opportunity to live in a REAL home not in an orphanage just because the child might be adopted outside the perfect 대한민국? It stuns me how "ungrateful" people can be about such an issue. Why not protest against the government that doesn't provide enough support for people who WANT to keep their kids?
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mercury



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Pusan

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taobenli wrote:
Do some research before you post. In the years following the Korean war, until things began to improve economically for the country, many women were tricked into putting their children into orphanages, assured that the orphanages would look after their children until they were economically able to resume care for them themselves. However, as a money-making scheme (since overseas adoption=$) the orphanages sent these children abroad often without families' consent or knowledge. Thus, many foreign adoptees (some of whom were adopted when they were old enough to remember everything about life in Korea and their birth family) and birth mothers protest international adoption. I think I would too...

I'm happy to provide sources later but don't have time right now...





Do some thinking before you post. This is 2007, I have met Koreans adopted by foreigners, one was an artist in Paris. She told me that if she had stayed in Korea she would not have had any chance to become an artist. Another Korean child adopted was a good friend of mine in h.s. He later became a lawyer and always felt himselt lucky to be adopted and have the chance to have a family. In this society do Koreans want to adopt children...... I guess that answers your question.

So what should they do, sit in an orphanage and go to school and be called names.......Or go somewhere where someone wants them, and is ready to give them a home and a family and an equal chance at life Idea
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taobenli wrote:
Do some research before you post. In the years following the Korean war, until things began to improve economically for the country, many women were tricked into putting their children into orphanages, assured that the orphanages would look after their children until they were economically able to resume care for them themselves. However, as a money-making scheme (since overseas adoption=$) the orphanages sent these children abroad often without families' consent or knowledge. Thus, many foreign adoptees (some of whom were adopted when they were old enough to remember everything about life in Korea and their birth family) and birth mothers protest international adoption. I think I would too...

I'm happy to provide sources later but don't have time right now...


- Women were "tricked" into putting their children into orphanages? What other options did (do) they have in a society obsessed with family blood-lines and thus does not want to adopt?

- Adoption is a money-making scheme?

- Kids were sent abroad without parents' knowledge or consent?

You had better make good on your promise and back up these allegations.
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billybrobby



Joined: 09 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troll_Bait wrote:
taobenli wrote:
Do some research before you post. In the years following the Korean war, until things began to improve economically for the country, many women were tricked into putting their children into orphanages, assured that the orphanages would look after their children until they were economically able to resume care for them themselves. However, as a money-making scheme (since overseas adoption=$) the orphanages sent these children abroad often without families' consent or knowledge. Thus, many foreign adoptees (some of whom were adopted when they were old enough to remember everything about life in Korea and their birth family) and birth mothers protest international adoption. I think I would too...

I'm happy to provide sources later but don't have time right now...


- Women were "tricked" into putting their children into orphanages? What other options did (do) they have in a society obsessed with family blood-lines and thus does not want to adopt?

- Adoption is a money-making scheme?

- Kids were sent abroad without parents' knowledge or consent?

You had better make good on your promise and back up these allegations.


Yeah, those are some pretty big allegations. But I guess I could see it happening.

I do know that foreign adoptions really stick in the craw of Korean race-nationalists because this country has an incredibly low birthrate, so they see it as shipping away precious Korean blood.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually conditions at orphanages - at least the Salvation Army ones - seem like they're greatly improved over what one hears from stories of past decades. At the one where I volunteer there's a girl who looks about 17ish who has a little baby at the same orphanage. It looks like someone shaved her head just before she arrived at the orphanage and I have no idea what may be the story with that, but at least she's proof that it is possible for an underage mother and her baby to be taken care of these days, and the other teenagers at the orphanage really seem to love her baby.

It's hard to say what's really the best course of action, given that very few if any Korean parents will adopt someone else's child, but keeping them in country does at least keep open the possiblity that relatives can keep in touch with the children and offer them a home and Korean family somewhere down the line if circumstances improve.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billybrobby wrote:

I do know that foreign adoptions really stick in the craw of Korean race-nationalists because this country has an incredibly low birthrate, so they see it as shipping away precious Korean blood.


But not blood so precious that it's worth adopting if it's not one's own.
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lastat06513



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Tiggi-guk-in" children (children born from a Korean woman and a foreign man and who are abandoned by the father [term commonly used for children born from Korean-GI relationships back in the day) have no rights in Korea;

1. They can't be places on the family registry
2. They can't own land or start businesses in their name.
3. They can't register for ordinary school (except under special circumstances with alot of pushing from very influencial people [though this is changing as more people marry and stay in Korea)
4. If they are male, they can't do military service, thus will face massive descrimination when applying for college and trying to get a job (a common question asked on almost ALL job applications is where and when a male employment candidate did their mandatory military service)

It was thought of that the fortunate ones were the children that could be adopted by caring families overseas and many of them turned out to be very successful, more so than if they were to stay and endure the terrible treatment they would certainly get in the Korean orphanage system.

In light of Korea's attitude toward these children, I would have to support the adoption system. It is one way for these children to get out a very bad situation.
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The_Conservative



Joined: 15 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:
Actually conditions at orphanages - at least the Salvation Army ones - seem like they're greatly improved over what one hears from stories of past decades. At the one where I volunteer there's a girl who looks about 17ish who has a little baby at the same orphanage. It looks like someone shaved her head just before she arrived at the orphanage and I have no idea what may be the story with that, but at least she's proof that it is possible for an underage mother and her baby to be taken care of these days, and the other teenagers at the orphanage really seem to love her baby.

It's hard to say what's really the best course of action, given that very few if any Korean parents will adopt someone else's child, but keeping them in country does at least keep open the possiblity that relatives can keep in touch with the children and offer them a home and Korean family somewhere down the line if circumstances improve.



I hear (only hear, mind you) that that is done as a punishment sometimes (the shaven head for girls).
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taobenli



Joined: 26 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I'm back. I can't take a lot of time right now, but off the top of my head...

Someone asked: why don't they protest their own nation's welfare system, and not the institution of adoption? Well, if you'd read your own article, you'd see that it says the mothers and children are protesting "their nation's adoption system." I'm sure this includes welfare policies by association. They're not blaming any other countries, and not blaming adoptive parents (who generally have sincere reasons for adopting, and yes, generally improve the child's life if one compares to living in an orphanage).

I've done a lot of research on this topic, and done a lot of thought about it. (I wrote my M.A. thesis on a related topic). I think it's completely possible to support adoptive parents while still realizing that there's something wrong with a (more or less developed) country sending away so many of its children. I too have many adopted friends- most love their birth parents, and most feel they have had good opportunities in their adoptive countries. This doesn't mean that they agree with the INSTITUTION, though, and many have very painful memories of being separated from family and ways of life. Also, just because someone MAY have had a better life because of being adopted abroad, doesn't mean that they should feel "grateful." I don't think any child should have to feel grateful for things that happened outside of their control...

One adoptive mother I know put the ambivalence of the adoption process best: she said she had adopted and does the best job she can in that role, but is also participating in the movement to provide the conditions necessary so that no birth mothers should have to give up their children.

If you want to look at some materials, here are some things to start with:

By a sociologist, mostly about the current China adoption boom: http://www.amazon.com/Transnational-Adoption-Cultural-Economy-Newcomers/dp/0814719724/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186381865&sr=8-1

A book written mostly (but not entirely) from a white, adoptive parent perspective (but academic): http://www.amazon.com/Cultures-Transnational-Adoption-Elizabeth-Alice/dp/0822335891/ref=sr_1_6/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186381984&sr=1-6

A recent anthology by mostly adoptees (not as academic, but very thought-provoking): http://www.amazon.com/Outsiders-Within-Writing-Transracial-Adoption/dp/0896087646/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&qid=1186381984&sr=1-6

A documentary about a woman adopted from Korea who's mother was tricked: http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2000/firstpersonplural/

I'll check back into this post later. I'm not saying that birth mothers are all saints and are never wrong, and I'm not calling people who adopt evil- far from it. However, the system smacks of inequity and needs some changes...
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taobenli wrote:
Okay, I'm back. I can't take a lot of time right now, but off the top of my head...

Someone asked: why don't they protest their own nation's welfare system, and not the institution of adoption? Well, if you'd read your own article, you'd see that it says the mothers and children are protesting "their nation's adoption system." I'm sure this includes welfare policies by association. They're not blaming any other countries, and not blaming adoptive parents (who generally have sincere reasons for adopting, and yes, generally improve the child's life if one compares to living in an orphanage).

I've done a lot of research on this topic, and done a lot of thought about it. (I wrote my M.A. thesis on a related topic). I think it's completely possible to support adoptive parents while still realizing that there's something wrong with a (more or less developed) country sending away so many of its children. I too have many adopted friends- most love their birth parents, and most feel they have had good opportunities in their adoptive countries. This doesn't mean that they agree with the INSTITUTION, though, and many have very painful memories of being separated from family and ways of life. Also, just because someone MAY have had a better life because of being adopted abroad, doesn't mean that they should feel "grateful." I don't think any child should have to feel grateful for things that happened outside of their control...

One adoptive mother I know put the ambivalence of the adoption process best: she said she had adopted and does the best job she can in that role, but is also participating in the movement to provide the conditions necessary so that no birth mothers should have to give up their children.

If you want to look at some materials, here are some things to start with:

By a sociologist, mostly about the current China adoption boom: http://www.amazon.com/Transnational-Adoption-Cultural-Economy-Newcomers/dp/0814719724/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186381865&sr=8-1

A book written mostly (but not entirely) from a white, adoptive parent perspective (but academic): http://www.amazon.com/Cultures-Transnational-Adoption-Elizabeth-Alice/dp/0822335891/ref=sr_1_6/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186381984&sr=1-6

A recent anthology by mostly adoptees (not as academic, but very thought-provoking): http://www.amazon.com/Outsiders-Within-Writing-Transracial-Adoption/dp/0896087646/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&qid=1186381984&sr=1-6

A documentary about a woman adopted from Korea who's mother was tricked: http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2000/firstpersonplural/

I'll check back into this post later. I'm not saying that birth mothers are all saints and are never wrong, and I'm not calling people who adopt evil- far from it. However, the system smacks of inequity and needs some changes...


So, three books that probably aren't available at Kyobo, and a documentary that, as far as I can tell, we can't access. Care to give us something that we can check out for ourselves, or do we have to trust that you're being honest?

You never answered this point brought up by myself and others:

Koreans are obsessed with family blood-lines and don't want to adopt.
In the few cases where Koreans do adopt ...
1. they are usually nephews, etc., so they are still part of the family.
2. the child is not told that they were adopted. The thinking is: If the child realizes that this parents are not his blood-parents, he will not be loyal to them. That is, he won't feel obligated to take care of them in old age.

The Korean government has tried to phase out foreign adoptions. In 1989, they planned to have put a complete halt to it in seven years, but had to abandon their plans in 1994. And why? You guessed it. Koreans don't want to adopt.
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mercury



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Pusan

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taobenli wrote:
Okay, I'm back. I can't take a lot of time right now, but off the top of my head...

Someone asked: why don't they protest their own nation's welfare system, and not the institution of adoption? Well, if you'd read your own article, you'd see that it says the mothers and children are protesting "their nation's adoption system." I'm sure this includes welfare policies by association. They're not blaming any other countries, and not blaming adoptive parents (who generally have sincere reasons for adopting, and yes, generally improve the child's life if one compares to living in an orphanage).

I've done a lot of research on this topic, and done a lot of thought about it. (I wrote my M.A. thesis on a related topic). I think it's completely possible to support adoptive parents while still realizing that there's something wrong with a (more or less developed) country sending away so many of its children. I too have many adopted friends- most love their birth parents, and most feel they have had good opportunities in their adoptive countries. This doesn't mean that they agree with the INSTITUTION, though, and many have very painful memories of being separated from family and ways of life. Also, just because someone MAY have had a better life because of being adopted abroad, doesn't mean that they should feel "grateful." I don't think any child should have to feel grateful for things that happened outside of their control...

One adoptive mother I know put the ambivalence of the adoption process best: she said she had adopted and does the best job she can in that role, but is also participating in the movement to provide the conditions necessary so that no birth mothers should have to give up their children.

If you want to look at some materials, here are some things to start with:

By a sociologist, mostly about the current China adoption boom: http://www.amazon.com/Transnational-Adoption-Cultural-Economy-Newcomers/dp/0814719724/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186381865&sr=8-1

A book written mostly (but not entirely) from a white, adoptive parent perspective (but academic): http://www.amazon.com/Cultures-Transnational-Adoption-Elizabeth-Alice/dp/0822335891/ref=sr_1_6/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186381984&sr=1-6

A recent anthology by mostly adoptees (not as academic, but very thought-provoking): http://www.amazon.com/Outsiders-Within-Writing-Transracial-Adoption/dp/0896087646/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/103-8208063-3413406?ie=UTF8&qid=1186381984&sr=1-6

A documentary about a woman adopted from Korea who's mother was tricked: http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2000/firstpersonplural/

I'll check back into this post later. I'm not saying that birth mothers are all saints and are never wrong, and I'm not calling people who adopt evil- far from it. However, the system smacks of inequity and needs some changes...





the links have nothing to do with the topic, your RESEARCH has nothing to do with my original post, you covered China, a white woman......the only thing you provided that dealt with Korea was the documentary and it starts out like this.......


In 1966, Deann Borshay Liem




I stated that this was 2007, now you are bringing up a case from 1966...... Question Question
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mack4289



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some things did change (or at least were supposed to) for biracial people here in Korea after the Hines Ward thing brought so much attention to their mistreatment:

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2707945

"Partially encouraged by the visit of Hines Ward, the half-Korean half-African-American football hero, the government and the party yesterday agreed to launch measures ranging from guaranteeing educational opportunities to offering citizenships to biracial children of de facto marriages.

The government will require colleges to offer a certain proportion of college admissions to biracial students and impose mandatory military service on biracial men by revising the law as early as December this year.

The government will provide systematic support for foreign parents by setting up help centers for foreigners, offering help to biracial children who have difficulties catching up with studies and running day-care centers for biracial children of low-income earners.

The term Honhyeolin, meaning mixed blood people, will be changed because it has a discriminatory implication regarding skin color or race. Instead, they would rather be called �children of marriage-based immigrants,� the government and the party said.

Noh Wung-rae, representative of Uri Party, said, �The bill will contain aggressive measures to forbid discrimination.� More sensitive issues such as the college admission quota will be pursued as a long-term project, he added."
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jaderedux2



Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Location: lurking just lurking

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I call B.S. on the whole matter. My spousal unit and I wanted to adopt a baby in Korea. He is Korean and I am American. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN WE DO THIS. We have contacted agency after agency. We were quite willing to take an older child perhaps 2 to 4 years old. But since I am an American the only way I could adopt a child from Korea is to take the child back to America.

I would have been happy to raise the child here in Korea but no we are not allowed to adopt. So they don't care that much if they are taken out of the country. Yes they are doing more to make adoption more palatable to Koreans but it is still not favored. No family book. No way to prove your ancestry.

Sorry but the entire system sucks arse. Yes there were some pretty shady practices in the past perpetrated by churches and other religious organizations and many sanctioned by the new government. A lot of mothers did not understand the concept of "orphanages" and there were many children adopted out without true consent.

However, one child we were interested in was a young girl and but she had a brother too. But we couldn't adopt the boy cuz the mother said she would be back for him. However, she gave permission to adopt out the girl. But pretty much for naught anyway as since we mixed couple and were planning to stay in Korea we ARE NOT allowed to adopt any Korean child.

Nice work folks.

Jade
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