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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: Why are we so indifferent to sexual violence & mass rape |
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Well, since violence against women has been a theme tonight, I thought I might start a thread on one of the questions posed earlier on another thread. Why don't people know much, care much, or do much about sexual violence?
Here is a shocking example of rampant sexual attrocity at it's most extreme, femicide:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/08/2380/
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On the outskirts of Guatemala City the body of an 18-year-old woman of indigenous ethnicity was recently discovered by her frantic parents who had been searching long and hard. Forensic evidence showed that she had been repeatedly raped and tortured and that her head had been severed from her body with a blunt knife while she was still alive.
This killing was more than just a passing aberration. Nightmarish crimes against women have been occurring with horrifying frequency in Guatemala. In the last seven years, over 3,200 Guatemalan women have been abducted and murdered, with many of them raped, tortured, and mutilated in the doing. The number of victims has shown a striking increase in the last few years with some six hundred murdered in 2006 alone.
The victims often are from low-income families deracinated from their rural homesteads during the civil war and forced to crowd into Guatemala City and other urban areas in search of work.
We might recall Guatemala�s horrid history of violence. From 1962 to 1996, a popular insurgency was defeated by that deranged murder machine known as the Guatemalan Army, trained, advised, financed, and equipped by the United States. A United Nations-sponsored Truth Commission in 1999 characterized much of the counterinsurgency as a genocide against the Mayan people, a holocaust that left 626 villages destroyed, approximately 200,000 people dead or disappeared, including many labor union leaders, student leaders, journalists, and clergy. Hundreds of thousands more were either displaced internally or forced to flee the country.
Those years of untrammeled massacres provide some context for the current wave of femicide sweeping the country. The 1996 peace accords officially declared an end to the butchery but the war against women continues albeit in more piecemeal fashion. Guatemalan women are enduring the whiplash of decades of dehumanizing violence�boosted by the same kind of deep-seated sexism and gender-specific crimes (rape) that are perpetrated in many societies around the world. |
But we don't hear much about it. Crimes and discrimination against women became a very 'sexy' topic lately, with regard to the 'War on Terror.' We were encouraged to use it as another reason to despise Muslims. Yet it's going on all over the place. In the Congo hundreds of thousands of women have suffered horrific rapes and mutilations of a sexual nature - but we don't here much about it: http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1201-02.htm
Suddenly, after 911, a lot of guys started making a big song and dance about women's rights. Yes, OK. But why does that concern seem so selective? Has this new concern helped many women around the world? Doesn't seem that way to me.
And in the article highlighted above, the woman was beheaded while alive. There was outrage when Muslims beheaded a few Westerners alive, but where is the outrage for the 18 year old girl above?
Why is sexual violence of little concern, when it is affecting millions of people around the world?
We don't seem to give a shyte about it, do we. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Why are we so indifferent to sexual violence & mass |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| There was outrage when Muslims beheaded a few Westerners alive, but where is the outrage for the 18 year old girl above? |
Conservatives aren't trying to justify a costly failure of an occupation in Guatemala. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Same question why is the left wing into selective criticism. ?
I mean Isreal gets it all the time from the left while they turn a blind eye and what Israel'e enemies have done.
Anyway the enemies of the US just by strange coincidence usually have the worst human rights records on the globe.
| Quote: |
| ALGERIA is the 'winner' of an alternative world cup - for the worst abuser of human rights. The garland of dishonour emerges from findings in The Observer's Human Rights Index, launched today to mark the 50th anniversary of t he Universal Declaration of Human Rights |
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| Quote: |
| Behind Algeria, on a score of 110.55, come North Korea, Burma, Indonesia, Libya, Colombia, Syria, Iraq, Yugoslavia and China. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Nigeria follow closely. The United Kingdom comes 141st; a good score on a global basis but not so admirable when compared with other rich, industrialised countries - we are seventh out of 23. |
| Quote: |
It scores 10 out of 10 on denial of majority rights because of gassing the Kurds.
A country with a wretched record of human rights abuse could score a maximum total of 190. Saddam Hussein's Iraq proves the winner of the unmodified list - which measures human rights abuses outside of their economic context - with an unadjusted score of 155. |
http://www.algeria-watch.org/mrv/mrvrap/observe4.htm
The left more than anyone else is guilty of selective criticism.
Saddam was even worse than the regime Guatemala.
This is a threat that the left wing is going to lose.
Lets play find the worst human rights violators on the planet Big Bird. Lets play who persecutes their minorities the worst.
And ask why the left wing is silent?
Wanna play? Your turn!
I applaud you for bringing up this topic.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Yea, I had a big post but deleted it. Going after the perps means putting Black men and Muslims in a bad light. That means being racist and Islamophobic. It ain't worth it. Sorry little girls. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Same question why is the left wing into selective criticism. ?
I mean Isreal gets it all the time from the left while they turn a blind eye and what Israel'e enemies have done.
Anyway the enemies of the US just by strange coincidence usually have the worst human rights records on the globe.
| Quote: |
| ALGERIA is the 'winner' of an alternative world cup - for the worst abuser of human rights. The garland of dishonour emerges from findings in The Observer's Human Rights Index, launched today to mark the 50th anniversary of t he Universal Declaration of Human Rights |
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| Quote: |
| Behind Algeria, on a score of 110.55, come North Korea, Burma, Indonesia, Libya, Colombia, Syria, Iraq, Yugoslavia and China. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Nigeria follow closely. The United Kingdom comes 141st; a good score on a global basis but not so admirable when compared with other rich, industrialised countries - we are seventh out of 23. |
| Quote: |
It scores 10 out of 10 on denial of majority rights because of gassing the Kurds.
A country with a wretched record of human rights abuse could score a maximum total of 190. Saddam Hussein's Iraq proves the winner of the unmodified list - which measures human rights abuses outside of their economic context - with an unadjusted score of 155. |
http://www.algeria-watch.org/mrv/mrvrap/observe4.htm
The left more than anyone else is guilty of selective criticism.
Saddam was even worse than the regime Guatemala.
This is a threat that the left wing is going to lose.
Lets play find the worst human rights violators on the planet Big Bird. Lets play who persecutes their minorities the worst.
And ask why the left wing is silent?
Wanna play? Your turn!
I applaud you for bring up this topic. |
Generally speaking, I stay out of your way Joo but in this case....I can't help but notice that you are using an article from nearly 10 years ago. Not to say it's any less relevant but why not update things a tad? And to add to that, who was the president back in 1998? Hmmm..... |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
S
Lets play find the worst human rights violators on the planet Big Bird. Lets play who persecutes their minorities the worst.
And ask why the left wing is silent?
Wanna play? Your turn!
I applaud you for bringing up this topic. |
OK Joo, then tell me first why the right wing are silent? Why did they never say anything about Saudi Arabia for all those years, for example? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| I'd say we're pretty indifferent to all types of violence and murder. Violence---whether muggings or robberies, gangland shootouts or school slayings, rape or castration, torture or murder---stems from the same fundamental disrespect for human life. It's an age-old problem. Societies that have, for millenia, had no qualms about sending their male populations to the slaughter surely won't show any new compassion now. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Big_Bird: Are you asking us to directly intervene and meddle in Guatamela's domestic affairs and criminal justice system so that it better conforms to our standards?
However it may be, this sounds ridiculously puerile and beyond your usual hopeless, head-in-the-stars Idealism to me. Yes, there should be no more rape or sexual violence. Everyone should be nice to everyone else. I honestly cannot think of a single example of anyone, anywhere who would disagree.
But how, exactly, do you propose to bring this about?
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Why don't people know much, care much, or do much about sexual violence? |
And who are "people?"
As far as America goes, the fed govt, every state, county, and city govt have alll passed strong laws against such crimes. We have atty and police units specially-tasked to investigate and prosecute them. And these units do in fact enforce these laws. Most juries, in my experience, follow through with convictions as well, when appropriate -- in spite of legions of leftist and Idealistic public defenders who protest that it is not really the perpetrator's fault that he or she raped or abused this or that victim.
Beyond this, we have rape prevention programs in nearly every community that I can think of. And let us not even get into sexual harassment.
I cannot speak for other countries. But I assume it is the same pretty much all over the world going back as least as far as the Code of Hammurabi. In fact, I cannot think of a single culture that encourages and/or approves of rape and sexual violence -- except for a whole slew of Polynesian peoples and cultures who violently force boys to give head and swallow semen for years at a time (throughout their adolescence, in fact) as a rite of passage that all liberal, "Let's-not-be-homophobics!" seem to love and admire for daring to break conformity with Western ideas on sexuality.
In any case, this thread is another case of internet purists at work. Since rape and sexual violence continue to exist, it must therefore result from our knowing little, caring little, and doing virtually nothing about the problem. Clearly, in the purists' view, this must derive from absolute indifference towards rape and sexual violence on our part.
I also notice that Twg took advantage of yet another opportunity, based on other people's suffering no less, to sneer at American foreign policy. Well done, chip. But how exactly is that supposed to contribute to such a discussion as this...? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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The left wing is the king of selective criticism.
Engaging in one sided selective criticism is what it is to be left wing on foreign policy. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Same question why is the left wing into selective criticism. ?
I mean Isreal gets it all the time from the left while they turn a blind eye and what Israel'e enemies have done.
Anyway the enemies of the US just by strange coincidence usually have the worst human rights records on the globe.
| Quote: |
| ALGERIA is the 'winner' of an alternative world cup - for the worst abuser of human rights. The garland of dishonour emerges from findings in The Observer's Human Rights Index, launched today to mark the 50th anniversary of t he Universal Declaration of Human Rights |
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| Quote: |
| Behind Algeria, on a score of 110.55, come North Korea, Burma, Indonesia, Libya, Colombia, Syria, Iraq, Yugoslavia and China. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Nigeria follow closely. The United Kingdom comes 141st; a good score on a global basis but not so admirable when compared with other rich, industrialised countries - we are seventh out of 23. |
| Quote: |
It scores 10 out of 10 on denial of majority rights because of gassing the Kurds.
A country with a wretched record of human rights abuse could score a maximum total of 190. Saddam Hussein's Iraq proves the winner of the unmodified list - which measures human rights abuses outside of their economic context - with an unadjusted score of 155. |
http://www.algeria-watch.org/mrv/mrvrap/observe4.htm
The left more than anyone else is guilty of selective criticism.
Saddam was even worse than the regime Guatemala.
This is a threat that the left wing is going to lose.
Lets play find the worst human rights violators on the planet Big Bird. Lets play who persecutes their minorities the worst.
And ask why the left wing is silent?
Wanna play? Your turn!
I applaud you for bring up this topic. |
Generally speaking, I stay out of your way Joo but in this case....I can't help but notice that you are using an article from nearly 10 years ago. Not to say it's any less relevant but why not update things a tad? And to add to that, who was the president back in 1998? Hmmm..... |
a) Cause it hasn't been updated. I have been looking for an update. Edit it was in 1999. but that is only one year later and with not many big changes
b) Cause the world hasn't changed much since then. You wanna say it has? I guess the Sudan would certainly make the list but wouldn't you know the they are also hostile to the US.
c)MInd you that 9-11 was six years ago and that list was and is a good reflection of the world when the war on terror began.
d) something from that period would also reflect that the the war before the war on terror was also against a nation with one of the worst human rights records.
For the record I was and still am a Bill Clinton supporter but I don't know why who the president was at the time of the list was important.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Big_Bird: Are you asking us to directly intervene and meddle in Guatamela's domestic affairs and criminal justice system so that it better conforms to our standards?
However it may be, this sounds ridiculously puerile and beyond your usual hopeless, head-in-the-stars Idealism to me. Yes, there should be no more rape or sexual violence. Everyone should be nice to everyone else. I honestly cannot think of a single example of anyone, anywhere who would disagree.
But how, exactly, do you propose to bring this about?
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Look at this fine piece of dispassionate, non-propagandistic journalism, a piece that clearly derives directly from Chomsky's allegation-driven, U.S.-centric discourse.
| CommonDreams.org wrote: |
| ...that deranged murder machine known as the Guatemalan Army, trained, advised, financed, and equipped by the United States. |
As the "Chomsky's Lies" thread counters,
| Lie No. 7 wrote: |
| Most of the deaths occurred in Guatemala while the country was subject to an American arms embargo on human rights grounds. |
This partly answers the question I asked and you quoted in blue: what leverage does America have to influence ground-based Guatemalan affairs like the sexual violence some Guatemalan men are inflicting on some Guatemalan women?
None. The world is fucked. And people are stupid. Want proof in Guatemala...?
| Rigoberta Mench� wrote: |
| ...The majority of Indians have no access to primary of secondary schools. The bourgeoisie, middle-class people, celebtrate it, but lower down there's none of that. When teachers come into the villages, they bring with them the ideas of capitalism and getting on in life. They try and impose these ideas on us. I remember that in my village there were two teachers for a while and they began teaching the people, but the children told their parents everything they were being taught at school and the parents said: "We don't want our children to become like [Guatemalan Hispanics]." And they made the teachers leave... |
How do you propose we help such people improve their lives, or whatever, when they prove so xenophobic and insular and, above all else, so heavily Communist-indoctrinated by Western activist-Idealists?
All these objections doubly-apply to anything going on in the Sudan or anywhere else in subSaharan Africa today, incidentally. |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not that noone cares about sexual violence and mass rape, if this was to happen in our countries there would be a massive uproar, it's just that to be perfectly blunt and honest, noone cares about Guatemalans. |
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