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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Once you've progressed past the novice stage, you might want to switch to the intermediate 5x5.
Intermediate 5x5
This is a program that is designed to get you putting up big numbers in the big lifts, which coincidentally will work the major muscle groups in your body. You'll get bigger and stronger all over. When you get to the point where this program is no longer effective (after multiple runs) then you can now consider yourself an advanced trainee and may now graduate to the curl machine so you can work on your bicep peak. Or you can switch to the advanced 5x5. In either case, you're probably huge by this point. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| You can also buy protein at many gyms, but it costs at least 3 times as much. |
Not true. Upline Fitness gym in Juyeop, Ilsan, sells protein powder for a relatively cheap prices. Well, at least cheap for Korea. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
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| You can also buy protein at many gyms, but it costs at least 3 times as much. |
Not true. Upline Fitness gym in Juyeop, Ilsan, sells protein powder for a relatively cheap prices. Well, at least cheap for Korea. |
Aieesh. It's true 99% of the time, fair enough? |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Sure thing, chicken wing.  |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Still at the lifting Thunndarr? You must be in excellent shape now.. It might surprise you to know that I plan to start working out as soon as I blah blah blah. Any day now. My latest excuse is that it is too darn humid.
Are you feuding with that machine-hogging ajosi still? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Thunndarr wrote: |
Now, for a highly recommended novice training program, I'm going to quote from the following:
Guide to Novice Barbell Training
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Why should I do this program?
Why are there so many questions on this program? Some say it is a fad, nothing more, nothing less. However, it is a fad that, along with Bill Starr's training methods, is now going on 3 decades of use. That is pretty long lasting for a 'fad'. It may be a 'fad' to the small fishbowl of training that is the bb.com Workout Program regulars, but to weight trainees worldwide, it is anything but a fad.
The program stresses the tried-and-true basics of effective compound exercises and weight progression on those exercises with an emphasis on exact technique. There is nothing "magical" about the program. It works because it is rooted in common sense and decades of experience.
It is a beginner's weight training program. As such, many of the specifics of the program (no machines, barbells only, very few exercises, very low complexity) will simply not work for someone who is more experienced or has a specific goal in mind (i.e. increase vertical jump, increase speed, win a national-level powerlifting contest or a bodybuilding contest). When reading through the program, ensure that you keep a sense of the Target Audience in your head, so you know to whom the information contained within is address.
In the end, the newcomer should do this program because it will get him strong and will teach him what he needs to know to form a basis of a "successful career" in weight training. There is no single "best way", but any different way Not everyone wants to be a professional bodybuilder/powerlifter/weightlifter/strongman. Most guys would like to be stronger and have some muscle. This program will help them take the first, crucial steps toward that goal, and the program ensures that those steps are solid, aimed in the right direction, and can set you up for further success in your weight training endeavors. |
And, what is the program exactly? Well, it's pretty simple.
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This is the format that I have used and recommended for the majority of peeps new to weight training. I suppose we can refer to it as "Kethnaab's novice program adjustment"
Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay Rows
Essentially, the programs are the same. Day 1 is a squat, a press, and a heavy pull from the floor. Day 2 is a squat, a press, and a lighter pull from the floor. Simple, easy, basic and effective.
All sets listed are "work sets" in the format "sets x reps per set". The nomenclature does not include warmups (discussed in Section V - Specific Routine Questions - look in the Table of Contents). All sets are done with the same weight (known as "sets across" - look in Table of Contents, Section VIII for further info). You should be working quite hard by the last set of each exercise, but ALL exercises are done with perfect technique (look in the Exercise section of the Table of Contents)
What? Were you looking for some incredibly complex training program? 3 exercises per day, 3 times per week? That's it????
Considering all the discussion on this program, you may have been expecting it to contain intricate details and incredibly complex variables, and all you get is a full body workout, 3 days a week?
Yup, it's that simple. These are the 2 base programs that everyone should start with. Pick one that suits your abilities/goals. For more info on the why's and wherefore's, and the specific details, read on. |
Yep, 3 exercises, 3 times a week. That's all you need. |
How about diet for the novice? I eat healthy-ish, with little junk food/fast food etc. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Still at the lifting Thunndarr? You must be in excellent shape now.. It might surprise you to know that I plan to start working out as soon as I blah blah blah. Any day now. My latest excuse is that it is too darn humid. |
Yeah, still lifting. I'm as big as I've ever been, but I don't look that great thanks to my beer habit. My lifting has been going really well though.
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| How about diet for the novice? I eat healthy-ish, with little junk food/fast food etc. |
I think the meals before and after your workouts are probably the most important. Carbs and protein before and after your workouts. And then shoot for 1g protein/pound of body weight. It ends up being a lot and I rarely end up getting all my protein in because you will a) start feeling really full and b) start detesting the taste of protein shakes. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Thundarr - Thanks for posting all of that. It's a great concept for novice training. Plus I would classify myself as a novice. I'm interested in all of the many ideas and looking at what is out there.
I already got started (3 weeks ago) with the program I got going - just modifying it with whatever knowledge I can get ahold of right now.
I'm thinking I'll go with the following...unless there are some recommended tweaks here and there?
Day 1
Barbell Bench Press Incline (Chest)
Barbell Bench Press (Chest)
Close Grip Pushdowns (Triceps)
Close Grip BenchPress -Skull Crushers (Triceps)
Standing Barbell Curl (Biceps)
Day 2
Squats (Legs)
Deadlifts (Back/Hamstrings)
Bent-Over Rows (Back)
Standing Barbell Press (Shoulders)
Side Raises (Shoulders)
Day 3
Rest or Cardio.
Then Repeat. |
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Chillin' Villain
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Goo Row
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Thundarr - Thanks for posting all of that. It's a great concept for novice training. Plus I would classify myself as a novice. I'm interested in all of the many ideas and looking at what is out there. |
Yeah, props for that. It's exactly what I was going to suggest. There are plenty more details on the intarwebs, and you certainly would not be hurting yourself if you got the book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe. |
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Papa Smurf
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
Thundarr - Thanks for posting all of that. It's a great concept for novice training. Plus I would classify myself as a novice. I'm interested in all of the many ideas and looking at what is out there.
I already got started (3 weeks ago) with the program I got going - just modifying it with whatever knowledge I can get ahold of right now.
I'm thinking I'll go with the following...unless there are some recommended tweaks here and there?
Day 1
Barbell Bench Press Incline (Chest)
Barbell Bench Press (Chest)
Close Grip Pushdowns (Triceps)
Close Grip BenchPress -Skull Crushers (Triceps)
Standing Barbell Curl (Biceps)
Day 2
Squats (Legs)
Deadlifts (Back/Hamstrings)
Bent-Over Rows (Back)
Standing Barbell Press (Shoulders)
Side Raises (Shoulders)
Day 3
Rest or Cardio.
Then Repeat. |
Assuming you are doing 3-5 sets per exercise, with 5-12 reps, you probably dont have enough exercises if you are only doing 2 sessions a week. Might want to split it in to 2 days full body and do 6-8 lifts per session. Also more legs. Only doing 2 exercise for your legs per week is gonna leave u with chicken legs.
Also, wouldn't do bench press twice in one session (i know one is incline and one is decline but they are very similar). Example:
DAY 1
Squats
Lunges
Bench
Bent Over Rows
Close Grip Push Downs
Barbell Curls
DAY 2
Deadlift
Leg Press
Incline or Decline Barbell Bench or Dumbell Bench
Lat Pulldown or chin ups
Skull Crusher
Barbell Press
Thats 6 exercise per session, covering all the major muscles. If you have then energy at the end of the session, throw in some shoulder work, such as side/front raises, some abs, and some extra bicep work.......variety is the spice of life. |
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Cynical Optimist
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Location: S.E. Korea
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Ok, protein first. Please keep in mind that the average body can only digest around 25 grams of protein per sitting. Atheletes with more efficient systems are around 30 grams. With that in mind, I see no need to break 40 grams per sitting (unless you're really enjoying that steak). |
I agree it's probably best not to go over about 40g/meal, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence to support the idea that the average person can only digest 25g per meal. I think it's a bit of a myth.
There was in fact one study done where researchers fed elderly women 80% of their protein req/day in one meal (lunch). The average amount of protein can be assumed to be about 54g in that meal (1.7g/kg bodyweight, assume avg wt of 40kg, by 80% = 54.4g). The result showed improved nitrogen retention over those who received the same amount spread out over the day.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/6/1202?ijkey=1bbc23b152ab9c5622300e7e6644510a3825ff75&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
I certainly wouldn't suggest trying to consume too much protein in one sitting, just trying to say that if elderly women can digest and utilize more than 25-30g of protein at once, it stands to reason that a younger, more active person could as well.
Currently I eat about 210g of protein per day (cutting diet), and I spread it out over 6 meals -- so that's about 35g of protein per meal. |
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Cynical Optimist
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Location: S.E. Korea
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Thunndarr wrote: |
| . . . . And then shoot for 1g protein/pound of body weight. It ends up being a lot and I rarely end up getting all my protein in because you will a) start feeling really full and b) start detesting the taste of protein shakes. |
What else are you eating? I find that making my protein requirements isn't what makes me full. When I was on a bulking diet (4275 cal / 143g fat / 209g pro / 539g carb), it was the carbs that killed me. So much whole grain rice!
Now that I'm trying to lose fat, I actually eat a little more protein, but only about 160g of carbs (from green veggies and fruit mostly). And I never really feel full. I only have protein shakes pre-workout and post-workout (that's 5 days/week), plus 25g-50g of casein protein every night before bed (depending on how much more I need for my daily goal). It's all about chicken "burrr-rests" (stupid swear filter). I eat that about 2-3 times a day, eggs one time, maybe some tuna, and the casein shake, and sometimes the PWO drinks. That about covers it.
I actually like the taste of my protein shakes -- Optimum Nutrition's Casein and their Gold Standard Whey; also Cytosport's CytoGainer Choco Mint. Or maybe I still like them because I don't actually have them that often and it's so nice to not have to cook! |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
At this time I want to focus on back, shoulders, biceps, triceps and chest.
If I were to split them up into two groups...and work on one group every other day. What would people on here recommend be the two groupings? |
Day 1 - Push
Day 2 - Pull |
Simplistic! I like that! |
Aye, if anyone wants ideas for exercises on those days... just hollar. |
I'm open to suggestions right now and have learned a lot from this great post. Thanks again, esp. CC. |
I just did this for this week, so I'll write down what I did.
Push
Stretching
Flat Bench - 5 sets (but very light at first)
Incline Smith Bench - 4 sets
Decline fly - 3 sets
Reverse close-grip machine bench (focusing on tris) - 4 sets
Calble Pressdown - 3 sets
Flex/stretch
40-50 minutes
Pull
Stretch
Wide grip cable pull downs - 5 sets
Seated two-arm machine row - 4 sets
Serratus pulldowns - 3 sets
Spinal erector extension - 3 sets
Standing limp spider curls - 4 sets
Alternate Hammer curls - 3 sets
Flex/Stretch
40-50 minutes
*the thing is though, I believe that after years of training, a person starts to know what works for them. I've learned what works for me - and what doesn't. The above are some ideas, but unless I'm training with you, it's hard to be more specific in what would be better for you.
| Cynical Optimist wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Ok, protein first. Please keep in mind that the average body can only digest around 25 grams of protein per sitting. Atheletes with more efficient systems are around 30 grams. With that in mind, I see no need to break 40 grams per sitting (unless you're really enjoying that steak). |
I agree it's probably best not to go over about 40g/meal, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence to support the idea that the average person can only digest 25g per meal. I think it's a bit of a myth.
There was in fact one study done where researchers fed elderly women 80% of their protein req/day in one meal (lunch). The average amount of protein can be assumed to be about 54g in that meal (1.7g/kg bodyweight, assume avg wt of 40kg, by 80% = 54.4g). The result showed improved nitrogen retention over those who received the same amount spread out over the day.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/6/1202?ijkey=1bbc23b152ab9c5622300e7e6644510a3825ff75&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
I certainly wouldn't suggest trying to consume too much protein in one sitting, just trying to say that if elderly women can digest and utilize more than 25-30g of protein at once, it stands to reason that a younger, more active person could as well.
Currently I eat about 210g of protein per day (cutting diet), and I spread it out over 6 meals -- so that's about 35g of protein per meal. |
Liek I said, I see no need to go over 40grams per sitting. Does that mean that you shouldn't? Nope, but the more you pass about 35, the more you'll be pissing out.
Now you can disagree with my statement of 25 grams beingthe average digestion and 30 being optimal, that's fine. Anyone who googles "protein digestion per sitting" will see that, although numbers vary according to each professional, the basic theme is that there is a limit for optimal absorption. I'm guessing neither of us have a lab at hand to test this to its fullest, so I'll stand by my statement that no person NEEDS to eat more than 40 grams per sitting (and I think you seem to be saying something similar) and that optimal digestion is somewhere below that. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
[
Ok, protein first. Please keep in mind that the average body can only digest around 25 grams of protein per sitting. Atheletes with more efficient systems are around 30 grams. ? |
Where did you read this? The human body digests and uses protein according to need. Let's say your caloric expenditure per day is 2000 calories (you need to take in that much to stay even) Let's also say you eat about 5 meals a day so that's about four hundred calories (on average) per meal. 1 gram of protein=4 calories. So let's say you eat a 100 gram (bit less than a quarter-pound of steak). for one meal. What happens to the other 75 grams? It just sits there? |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
[
Ok, protein first. Please keep in mind that the average body can only digest around 25 grams of protein per sitting. Atheletes with more efficient systems are around 30 grams. ? |
Where did you read this? The human body digests and uses protein according to need. Let's say your caloric expenditure per day is 2000 calories (you need to take in that much to stay even) Let's also say you eat about 5 meals a day so that's about four hundred calories (on average) per meal. 1 gram of protein=4 calories. So let's say you eat a 100 gram (bit less than a quarter-pound of steak). for one meal. What happens to the other 75 grams? It just sits there? |
Wikipedia sez:
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| Because the body is unable to store it, excess protein is broken down and converted into sugars or fatty acids. The liver removes nitrogen from the amino acids, so that they can be burned as fuel, and the nitrogen is incorporated into urea, the substance that is excreted by the kidneys. These organs can normally cope with any extra workload but if kidney disease occurs, a decrease in protein will often be prescribed. |
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