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Korea vs. Taiwan
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korea or taiwan
korea
66%
 66%  [ 24 ]
taiwan
33%
 33%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 36

Author Message
duns0014



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Location: Ilsan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:36 pm    Post subject: Korea vs. Taiwan Reply with quote

For those who've taught in both, which is better? Include everything, pay, food, general conditions, dating, etc.
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jlb



Joined: 18 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've taught in Korea and traveled in Taiwan so my knowledge of Taiwan is pretty much second-hand in terms of teaching. Anyway, for living: Taiwan seems more enjoyable. However, free housing usually isn't provided so you may have to live in a hostel or share a ghetto with too many roomies. Or pay big bucks for your own place so in that regard it's a toss-up I'd say.

As for teaching: Korea seems to be where the $$$ is.
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Smee



Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Taiwan forum there are 4 threads on the front page that address the same question: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewforum.php?f=12 Also, there have been numerous threads on this same topic, and a bunch of posts on Taiwan and Taipei that hit on the same points.
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duns0014



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Location: Ilsan

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smee wrote:
On the Taiwan forum there are 4 threads on the front page that address the same question: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewforum.php?f=12 Also, there have been numerous threads on this same topic, and a bunch of posts on Taiwan and Taipei that hit on the same points.


But they didn't have polls. That's where my genius comes in. I have to admit I'm surprised by the results though. Was it some koreans on here hyping the place?
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duns0014 wrote:
Smee wrote:
On the Taiwan forum there are 4 threads on the front page that address the same question: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewforum.php?f=12 Also, there have been numerous threads on this same topic, and a bunch of posts on Taiwan and Taipei that hit on the same points.


But they didn't have polls. That's where my genius comes in. I have to admit I'm surprised by the results though. Was it some koreans on here hyping the place?

Read those postings as well. WOW! Typical though. A lot of backseat drivers who have never been to Seoul spouting off how and why they made the better choice with Taiwan (or wherever they went based on Daves posting).

Personally, being in Korea, I'm a 'greener pasture kind of guy', so the status-quo is never good. But if Taiwan was my status-quo and I hadn't left it, I'd have said 'anything is better than here'.

Contradictrary I know.

On the other hand, I've been in and out of Korea since 1996. Made 4 permanant moves out of Korea just knowing that 1) Europe would be better, 2) South America would be better, 3) New York City would be better, and 4) San Francisco would be better. It turned out all FOUR were better. But I always come back. WHY? I don't know. But I like it. And I can't wait to make a #5 move away from here!
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent 8 or 9 months teaching in Tainan, Taiwan and about 12 years teaching here in Korea. I think that expresses my preference well enough.

I've written several posts over the years on this topic, so I won't this time. I have nothing new to say. A search should turn up at least one of my previous posts, as well as others.
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silly poll, bound to bias, like which girls are cuter. Respondents dwell here, not everyone knows the other.
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TECO



Joined: 20 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how long is a piece of string?

Which colour is best - green or blue?

What kind of music is better - jazz or blues?

Everyone has different criteria that they use to judge. There are too many variables to consider - what kind of personality do you have?

    You want free housing - go to Korea.

    You don't want to have your housing tied to your employer and don't care - go to Taiwan.

    You want to learn Mandarin Chinese - go to Taiwan

    You want to be within 2 - 3 hours flight of other S.E. countries - go to Taiwan

    You like drinking and going to bars - go to Seoul.

    You want mild winters - go to Taiwan

    You like riding a scooter through sub-tropical mountains - Taiwan

    You like being surronded by well-dressed women / men - go to Seoul

    You like wearing sandals and a T-shirt to class - go to Taiwan

    You want to be able to buy fruit on every street corner - go to Taiwan

both places still have a lot of xenophobic, racisit, nationalistic, provincial locals who can be very ignorant towards outsiders. And there are also a lot of crap employers in both places.

To me Taipei is one of the most boring Asian cities I've lived in - but that's just me. I prefer Seoul to Taipei. And I prefer Tokyo to Seoul.

like the Thais say, same - same but different.
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dmbfan



Joined: 09 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On the other hand, I've been in and out of Korea since 1996. Made 4 permanant moves out of Korea just knowing that 1) Europe would be better, 2) South America would be better, 3) New York City would be better, and 4) San Francisco would be better. It turned out all FOUR were better. But I always come back. WHY? I don't know. But I like it. And I can't wait to make a #5 move away from here!



Interesting way to look at it...........seriously.


dmbfan
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yingwenlaoshi



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want to meet women who have a mix of aborginal, Japanese, and Chinese who are so cute you'd fall off your chair? Go to Taiwan. You want to meet women who'd go home with you at the drop of a hat? Go to Taiwan.

You want to eat real dumplings and noodles? Go to Taiwan. The food? Taiwan. Hands down. They have hot chilli sauce and breakfast places open all night.

The night life? Taiwan. Hands down. The people are more friendly.

Downside to Taiwan is pay. Other than that, it's better. Much better. More laid back.

But they can fire you for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all.
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TECO



Joined: 20 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the negatives you experience in Korea - staring, xenophobia, dishonest bosses - you'll also experience in Taiwan.

This, I dug up on the Taiwan forum and was written in 2003

Best Reasons to EFL in Taiwan:

Quote:

    10. You will never be lonely: desparate taiwanese trying to practice their english with you, so many English speakers from so many different places with so much to complain about.

    9. You can drive your scooter/motorcycle anywhere! Yes, a bit risky and watch our for homicidal truck drivers, but most people are watching out for you, as they don't want a dent from your head on their lexus.

    8. Your vehicle costs are less than a few nights on the town. (for a scooter) Gas costs 100nt/week.

    7. You can afford to shop at Costco!! Microwave pizza, cheap booze...did I say microwave pizza?

    6. You will never need a pair of socks. (I went two years without, except for 2 weddings)

    5. The ocean is never far away. No, we don't have world class diving or surfing, but beautiful beaches abound and there's hardly anybody in the water!

    4. People are nice. Yes, there is the staring, but hey, you're a celebrity! Enjoy it. You will miss feeling so special when you arrive home.

    3. Cheap, cheap food everywhere that is delicious. Ok, so you have to explain you don't eat organs. But there is so much more...

    2. Bushibans give lots of vacations. (you could be in S. Korea with only 10 days/year) So many chances to go to Thailand, HK, Bali, Japan, Malaysia, its all right here.

    1. You get paid lots and lots to be an ass. Yes, we should be serious and invite the respect we desire and sometimes deserve, but getting paid this much to do the hokey pokey when I'd be getting just a third of that to build houses back home is brilliant!!!!!!!!!! (run-on sentence is for effect)!


Another one from 2003:

Taiwan vs. Japan

Quote:
I'm in Taiwan. I don't like it.

The learning methodology (rote memorization-one sentence answers) is crap.

The environment is terrible.

The students are like robots ("I like play com-pu-ta game").

Is Japan any different?
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yingwenlaoshi



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really one thing you gotta keep in mindi. Teaching here is a cake walk compared to Taiwan.

Really.
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TECO



Joined: 20 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

English teacher,

I hear ya, man!

The grass isn't always greener is what I'm reading.
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yingwenlaoshi



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TECO wrote:
English teacher,

I hear ya, man!

The grass isn't always greener is what I'm reading.


Yah? What can you do when you live in a shoe.
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TECO



Joined: 20 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's how friendly Taiwanese people are Shocked

Indonesian Workers in Taiwan

Quote:
The Jakarta Post ran an article today on the plight of Indonesian workers in Taiwan (from here).


Every day a special complaints hotline set up by the Indonesian trade office in Taiwan gets about 300 hits from distressed Indonesian workers.

Around ten per cent concern serious issues, including alleged sexual assaults, physical and emotional abuse, withholding of pay and slashing of wages, bad living conditions and breaches of work contracts.

The issues are so worrying and consistent that a senior Indonesian official has called for the whole Tenaga Kerja Indonesia (TKI � Indonesian overseas labor force) system to be overhauled from the top down.

The claims were made by Ferry Yahya, head of the Indonesian Economic and Trade Office to Taipei (the capital of Taiwan) at a public event in Taipei this week to raise awareness of Indonesia's labor contribution to the Taiwan economy.

There are around 105,000 Indonesian workers in the island state, about one third of the total overseas labor force. Most are women domestic workers.

A worker paper by Anne Loveband at the University of Wollongong wrote a working paper entitled Positioning the Product: Indonesian Migrant Women Workers in Contemporary Taiwan, based on her ethnographic work with foreign workers and their employers in Taiwan. She found that worker assignment in Taiwan is driven by essentialist ethnic stereotyping. For example, Thais are considered best for factory work, being hardworking at honest. In the case of Indonesian maids, they are considered loyal and hardworking, but widely "damned for their stupidity," considered good only for simple repetitive tasks. Thus, they wind up doing work like caring for the sick, extremely demanding physically and emotionally, requiring them to be on call 24-7 in many cases.

Loveband observes that this sector used to be dominated by Filipinas, who are outnumbered about 4 to 1 by the Indonesians at present. As Filipino support organizations such as local NGOs, the Catholic Church, and the Manila Representative Office got more vocal about the treatment of Filipino workers, the ethnic rhetoric shifted and the popularity of Indonesians grew and that of Filipinos waned. Interestingly, the workers themselves seem to accept these stereotypes.

According to the article, the Indonesian representative office here has installed a text messaging system to handle complaints from workers. Interestingly, the office shies away from blaming Taiwan employers for problems. Instead, he argues that workers need to be better prepared with foreign languages, and labor contracts and laws need better enforcement.


Ferry said language differences were at the heart of many disputes. Most Taiwanese speak Mandarin and few among the older generation speak English.

........

Any Prayogiati, 35, originally from Cilacap (Central Java) said she had been hit in the back by her employer when she couldn't understand instructions. She has been in Taiwan for 18 months and works in an old people's home handling incontinent patients.

........

Any said she was able to attend the event only at the last minute when organizers persuaded her employer that she wouldn't run away. If she took a day off every week her pay was deducted.

"I wasn't paid for several months as my salary was used to repay the labor contractor's fees," she said.

"There are no Islamic prayer facilities so I have to use a Buddhist shrine and ask God for His forgiveness".

Her husband Maryoko could not come to Taiwan because he is also a TKI working at a prawn farm in Malaysia.

Loveband did her work in Fengyuan, where she noted the highly visible presence of Indonesian workers openly performing illegal work in restaurants and shops, whereas most of the research has been done on Filipino domestics and has missed this sector. Her point was that the Indonesians are preferred for such tasks, and that many who on the surface are employed caring for sick elders are actually working in family businesses. This misuse of foreign workers is common and winked at by officialdom, as every foreigner here for any length of time has observed. Like most illegal arrangements in Taiwan, it is winked at outside of the capital, but more strictly enforced in Taipei. Loveband argues that Indonesians are preferred for such tasks because females from the Philippines are "arrogant" -- meaning that they often have good educations, speak English, have support groups, and have the backing of NGOs and other organizations -- and thus Indonesians are more easily exploited.

The interesting thing about Indonesians, despite the cultural stereotype of "loyalty" is that proportionally they were the leading runaways, a problem so acute that in Aug of 2002 the government temporarily banned further import of workers from Indonesia. This led to a turn toward Vietnamese workers. I wonder, also, if the trend toward importing women for foreign marriage is more than just a response to the pickier habits of Taiwan's choosy femmes, but is also a response to the "unreliability" of imported foreign domestics -- what better way to bind a laborer to oneself than to marry her?
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