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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: Religious school funding may define Ont. election |
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TORONTO � With public funding of religious schools shaping up to be a �defining issue� in Ontario's upcoming election campaign, Premier Dalton McGuinty warned Wednesday that an Opposition plan to fund non-Catholic religious schools would separate rather than unite people of diverse backgrounds.
Conservative Leader John Tory has said if he's elected premier he will extend public funding to Jewish, Muslim and Christian schools in Ontario that agree to follow the provincial curriculum, calling it a matter of fairness.
At the same time, the Ontario Green party is campaigning on a proposal to end public funding of Roman Catholic schools, a practice that has been condemned by the United Nations as discriminating against other religions.
Entering his last scheduled cabinet meeting Wednesday before the Oct. 10 election, Mr. McGuinty dismissed both the Conservative and Green proposals, and said it was important to keep building on the existing public education system.
�Either we go to funding all religions � which of course is a can of worms � or we go like Quebec, Manitoba and Newfoundland and switch to just funding one school system for each language.�
�There are 53,000 students across this province who are in schools where we don't know what they're being taught or by whom,� Mr. Tory said in reference to students currently attending private religious schools. �I want to bring those students in and make our public education system more inclusive.�
Mr. McGuinty is just �playing politics� with an important issue and policy proposal that recognizes the face of Ontario is changing, he added.
But Mr. McGuinty said an important part of Ontario's success as a multicultural society is that the existing public education system lets kids of all faiths learn together.
�An important part of our foundation for social cohesion is a publicly funded education system where we invite children of all backgrounds and faiths, economic circumstances, to come together to learn from each other and to grow together,� he said.
�It's one of those issues where I'm hoping to grab Ontarians by the earlobes and say it's not just another election, it's about the kind of Ontario you want.�
NDP critic Peter Tabuns said the New Democrats also support maintaining the status quo in public education, but with one key proviso.
�We need to put money back into the system to deal with the fundamental problems that teachers and students are dealing with,� Mr. Tabuns said. |
http://www.theglobeandmail.com
Not a single cent of state money (which is money taken from "taxpayers") should ever, ever, ever, ever go to a cult. Never. The Green Party is right, in this situation. The seperation between state and religion must be 100%.
And while we are at it, it is far past time that religious organizations start paying taxes like other revenue-generating firms. That is another form of support of sorcery. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I've always assumed the catholic school funding in Ontario has been a constitutional matter.
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| 93. In and for each Province the Legislature may exclusively make Laws in relation to Education, subject and according to the following Provisions: -- 1. Nothing in any such Law shall prejudicially affect any Right or Privilege with respect to Denominational Schools which any Class of Persons have by Law in the Province at the Union. 2. All the Powers, Privileges, and Duties at the Union by Law conferred and imposed in Upper Canada on the Separate Schools and School Trustees of the Queen's Roman Catholic Subjects shall be and the same are hereby extended to the Dissentient Schools of the Queen's Protestant and Roman Catholic Subjects in Quebec. |
It might be a case of gun control. Many might not like the right to bear arms concept, find it out dated, but there it is. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess that has to be changed, then. |
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Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I move that the Canadian government stop sponging from Christians when using dates. Canadians must stop living in "The year of our Lord 2007" and use star dates or the actual age of the Earth. That would be 4,500,000,000-ish. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm down. Get rid of it all. All the superstitions. |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:37 am Post subject: |
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..../
Last edited by enns on Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| I guess that has to be changed, then. |
I'm all for that. But I don't know if you're going to get people onside for a new round of constitutional change. Worse, it might have the effect of going the other way. Instead of a greater separation of church 'n' state, the religious people might just try to get their protected status written in. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| I guess that has to be changed, then. |
I'm all for that. But I don't know if you're going to get people onside for a new round of constitutional change. Worse, it might have the effect of going the other way. Instead of a greater separation of church 'n' state, the religious people might just try to get their protected status written in. |
True and true.
It is amazing, isn't it? That in Canada we still have to deal with this nonsense in 2007. I'm disgusted that the idea of extending state cash to madrassas is even being considered in my country. The Catholic schools should lose 100% of funding. Canadians should get a Canadian education in a godless Canadian school. Unless their parents want to pay 100% of the cost of a private education in imaginary friends, then I'm not in a position to say. Too bad. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Well, the Catholic church has some fine schools. I do like the church in many respects, though I know some do not. However, I do not believe they should receive special financial treatment except for maybe not paying taxes or something of that nature, but that would then have to apply to the other denominational schools out there. In the United States they do not pay for Catholic schools. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| It is amazing, isn't it? That in Canada we still have to deal with this nonsense in 2007. |
Well, you can always move to the UK...
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Peter Phillips's bride-to-be is Autumn Kelly, 31, a Canadian. But there is a problem: The otherwise lucky woman is a baptized Roman Catholic. Press reports suggest that she takes her religious identity seriously.
The British royal family functions as the organizing center of universal distraction, yet serious questions are occasionally surfaced by its standing at the intersection of culture, tradition and power. The engagement of Peter Phillips and Autumn Kelly is at issue because, according to British law, one of them is going to be required to make a painful decision. Either Phillips must renounce his place in the line of succession or Kelly must renounce her religion.
The 1701 Act of Settlement is still in force, and it states clearly that anyone who "should profess popish religion, or marry a papist, should be excluded [from succeeding to the throne], and are by that Act made for ever incapable to inherit, possess, or enjoy the Crown and government of this realm."
Every so often, reformers have introduced parliamentary legislation to repeal this discriminatory provision. As recently as last year, such efforts were beaten back. The restriction's defenders argue that, because the British monarch is simultaneously the head of the Church of England, it is appropriate to protect the succession from Roman Catholics. The narrow issue of anti-Catholicism quickly becomes the larger one of protecting the Established Church from disestablishment.
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http://tinyurl.com/39mceq |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
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This topic interests me, as one of my good friends is a Northeastern University professor who has written several books and testified before Congress on the separation of church and state. I helped him with his research, and learned a lot from a historical point of view.
In the ancillary writings of the drafters during the period when the assembly was creating the U.S. Constitution, there are many clear opinions expressed by Thomas Jefferson et al that clearly show that their view was there should be no preferential treatment of one religion over others in terms of state support and funding.
If you fund one religion, you must fund them all equally. Of course, at the time they made this determination, I suppose they hadn't considered the eventual multiplicity of religions that would exist in America (i.e. Raelians). But the position is a good one, I believe.
All or none. I say no funding for religion is the wiser and less divisive choice. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Well, the Catholic church has some fine schools. I do like the church in many respects, though I know some do not. However, I do not believe they should receive special financial treatment except for maybe not paying taxes or something of that nature, but that would then have to apply to the other denominational schools out there. In the United States they do not pay for Catholic schools. |
I liked catholic education before "full funding". The line of reasoning was the government only financed catholic school up to grade 10 as that was pretty much when people left school in BNA times. So if you wanted to go beyond grade 10 (11, 12, and 13), you had to pay tuition. This caused
a) lot of the jock brainstem douche bags to drop out
b) less money, less fluff
You wanted to take interpretive dance? You took chemistry. You wanted to take art history? You took math.
Pretty much the whole curriculum was based on the idea that you were going to university. So it was x5x level and some x6x level courses, no x4x or x3x.
Canadians tend to enforce a separation of church and state on their own. We don't require religious tests of our politicians like Americans require. You don't get the photo ops of Canadian PMs going to church. We don't care. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I've never been to a catholic school, so I don't know how their ciriculum differs from the rest of the public schools in Canada. I agree with Caniff in that if a school can meet certain standards, (and maintain a certain number of students) then give them funding. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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I went to Catholic school from K-5, 7-9. Good schools. Much better than the public schools in many ways, but we are all from fairly well-off families. There were no "disadvantaged" kids in my school. Not a one, until some El Salvadorians in J-high.
We had 30 min of religion a day, prayed before the day started, before lunch and after lunch. We went to church on Fridays too. And oodles of meetings in the gym where we learned about nonsense.
But I got an excellent education otherwise. When i rejoined the public schools in grade 10 I was heaps ahead of my new peers. Unfortunately, I can still remember some bible passages from heart. What a waste of hard drive space. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah that explains much. A young Stepden Deadalus! |
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