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Reactions to first Hindu prayer in U.S. Senate

 
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reactions to first Hindu prayer in U.S. Senate Reply with quote

I'll just post the article for now:

by Worldwide Faith News
Posted August 4, 2007

Washington, D.C.: Spokespersons for the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) said that the Hindu prayer opening the U.S. Senate on July 12 purportedly the first in the 200 year history of that body was an encouraging sign of religious pluralism and inclusiveness in the United States. ISKCON officials congratulated invited guest chaplain Rajan Zed for leading the prayer, and especially praised Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid for his continued support of the prayer, even in the face of some opposition from Christian fundamentalists.

ISKCON, popularly known as the Hare Krishna movement, expressed sadness that the event was marred by protestors who attempted to disrupt the prayer by shouting out Biblical verses and condemning the Hindu prayer as "an abomination." The protestors were removed and arrested, and the prayer allowed to continue, but the disruption soiled the momentous occasion. "What should have been a moment of pride and a cause for celebration, not just for Hindus but for all Americans, was stolen by a few extremists using bullying tactics to further their own discriminatory agenda," said ISKCON spokesperson Vineet Chander. "It is a sad testament to how much more work needs to be done to combat prejudice and religious intolerance in this country."

The protests appeared to be related to an earlier attempt by Christian Evangelical groups to have the prayer prohibited. An email petition circulated by the American Family Association argued that Hinduism "is not a religion that has created great things in the world," and that a Hindu prayer must be polytheistic and thus "completely outside the American Paradigm." Spokesperson Daniel Barton is quoted in the petition as saying that "In Hindu[ism] you have not one God, but many, many, many, many, many gods. And certainly that was never in the minds of those who did the Constitution."

Many Krishna devotees found this erroneous reasoning that Hindu prayer was incompatible with the faith of most Americans particularly troubling. ISKCON represents Vaishnavism, the worship of Lord Krishna, one of the principle branches within the broad Hindu, or Vedic, tradition. Vaishnavas are monotheists, and believe Lord Krishna to be the same one God worshipped by Christians, Jews and Muslims. Scholars believe that Vaishnavas make up approximately 70% of all Hindus.

"It is wrong to assume that Hindus are all polytheists. We have a strong tradition of monotheism that pre-dates Christianity and is upheld by the majority of Hindus." said Chander, who also serves as the Hindu Chaplain at Rutgers University in New Jersey. "People like Mr. Baron rely on stereotype and a skewed misreading of history to push the myth that America was founded to be a small-minded Christian nation. It was not."

As one of the first Hindu organizations established in America, ISKCON has been at the forefront of the struggle to have more diverse expressions of faith in the public square.

"This incident clearly indicates the need to increase education about religion in the United States, to enhance awareness of and respect for the diversity of religious expressions that exist today in our country," said Chander...

http://www.chakra.org/news/newsAug04_07_02.html
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vineet Chander wrote:
It is a sad testament to how much more work needs to be done to combat prejudice and religious intolerance in this country.


No, it isn't. The protestors were thrown out. Its called freedom of speech, and they're allowed to exercise it, and the government is allowed to throw them out.

The fact that the Hindus were able to hold prayer says something special about the spirit of religious plurality and inclusiveness in the US.

Vineet Chander wrote:
People like Mr. Baron rely on stereotype and a skewed misreading of history to push the myth that America was founded to be a small-minded Christian nation. It was not.


Chander is correct here. The US was founded as a broad-minded Christian nation, not a small-minded one.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:

Chander is correct here. The US was founded as a broad-minded Christian nation, not a small-minded one.


God is mentioned, I believe, once in the US constitution and Jesus nowhere. Many of the founding fathers were not Christians but Deists and many expressly noted that the USA was not a Christian nation, even a broad-minded one.

Anyway, those Christians exercising their free speech I'm sure would decry a lack of respect if anyone interrupted one of their religious services. If hypocrisy isn't one of the seven deadly sins, it sure should be.


Last edited by mindmetoo on Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Reactions to first Hindu prayer in U.S. Senate Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
I'll just post the article for now:

by Worldwide Faith News
Posted August 4, 2007


Dude I was so over this the next day. See Jul 13, 2007.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
Kuros wrote:

Chander is correct here. The US was founded as a broad-minded Christian nation, not a small-minded one.


God is mentioned, I believe, once in the US constitution and Jesus nowhere. Many of the founding fathers were not Christians but Deists and many expressly noted that the USA was not a Christian nation, even a broad-minded one.



Yes, that's correct. The manner of worship of God was left open, and there is a strict seperation of Church and State. I never said that America was founded as a theocracy or a Christianist nation.

But neither is America secularist. Even today, Presidential candidates invoke the themes of God and faith, Democrat and Republican, in ways that would be impossible in a nation like France, for instance. The relationship to God is often talked as a personal relationship, and individualism is strong in American worship. Hence the proliferation of evangelicalism.

America is a society of religious pluralism, and in recent years that pluralism has grown to embrace faiths outside Judeo-Christianity.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
But neither is America secularist.


I disagree. It seems to me the establishment clause, that the government should not establish a state religion or give preference to any one, makes it secular by default. No? One should not hang a politician for praying but the politician should not use public funds to enshrine his prayers in government.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
Kuros wrote:
But neither is America secularist.


I disagree. It seems to me the establishment clause, that the government should not establish a state religion or give preference to any one, makes it secular by default. No? One should not hang a politician for praying but the politician should not use public funds to enshrine his prayers in government.


Firstly, I understand that the entire 'America-is-a-Christian-nation' meme is kind of a theme of the Religous Right. I do not wish to assert that America is Christian so much to support greater religiousity in public affairs, but rather to continue to restrict it.

I used to 'Pledge Allegiance, to one nation under God,' in elementary school. But it didn't work to keep me Catholic when I reached middle school. Public mentions of God, like the one in the Constitution, are very rare and very content-neutral. The point of keeping it that way was to prevent religious conflict between different sects of Christianity, and not to establish a secular society. You'll see huge church involvement in American civil society outside of politics from the beginning of America (and before the Constitution) right on up to today. These churches tend to know their boundaries.

In an American school or courtroom, a child or a defendant can wear a yamakah or a veil or the cross or whatever. This is not the case in a truly secular society like France. Often the distinction might be considered nominal, but I think when you look at America culturally, it becomes harder to deny that it is a Christian nation.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that American ideals of religious freedom and tolerance were/are historically grounded in Judeo-Christian principles.

The Constitution is a living document, and non-sectarian religious principles and faith in a Supreme God should always be positively promoted.

Some recent Supreme Court decisions - perniciously influenced by atheistic "scientific" views - reflect the notion that the government should be neutral vis-a-vis (even nonsectarian) religion and atheism...
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
I think that American ideals of religious freedom and tolerance were/are historically grounded in Judeo-Christian principles.

The Constitution is a living document, and non-sectarian religious principles and faith in a Supreme God should always be positively promoted.

Some recent Supreme Court decisions - perniciously influenced by atheistic "scientific" views - reflect the notion that the government should be neutral vis-a-vis (even nonsectarian) religion and atheism...


We've been down this road before. You do realize those atheistic "scientists" tend to fight more for your rights to practise your satanic faith. I didn't notice any atheists standing up and denouncing that prayer. The Christians pushing for their religious rights certainly aren't going to bring you along in the spirit of fellowship. You worship the devil. They worship the true god. Why should they care about your rights?
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah right... Spokespersons for science have the utmost respect for freedom of expression re matters they claim as their exclusive domain:

...The case of author Michael Cremo is well documented, and it also demonstrates how the scientific establishment openly uses pressure tactics on the media and government. His book Forbidden Archeology examines many previously ignored examples of artifacts that prove modern man's antiquity far exceeds the age given in accepted chronologies.

The examples which he and his co-author present are controversial, but the book became far more controversial than the contents when it was used in a documentary.

In 1996, NBC broadcast a special called The Mysterious Origins of Man, which featured material from Cremo's book. The reaction from the scientific community went off the Richter scale. NBC was deluged with letters from irate scientists who called the producer "a fraud" and the whole program "a hoax".

But the scientists went further than this--a lot further. In an extremely unconscionable sequence of bizarre moves, they tried to force NBC not to rebroadcast the popular program, but that effort failed.

Then they took the most radical step of all: they presented their case to the federal government and requested the Federal Communications Commission to step in and bar NBC from airing the program again.

This was not only an apparent infringement of free speech and a blatant attempt to thwart commerce, it was an unprecedented effort to censor intellectual discourse. If the public or any government agency made such an attempt to handcuff the scientific establishment, the public would never hear the end of it.

The letter to the FCC written by Dr Allison Palmer, President of the Institute for Cambrian Studies, is revealing:

At the very least, NBC should be required to make substantial prime-time apologies to their viewing audience for a sufficient period of time so that the audience clearly gets the message that they were duped. In addition, NBC should perhaps be fined sufficiently so that a major fund for public science education can be established...


http://www.s8int.com/truesuppressions.html
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
Yeah right... Spokespersons for science have the utmost respect for freedom of expression re matters they claim as their exclusive domain:


Really? Who were these "spokespersons"? Did they represent any major scientific body? Someone complained. Great. People write complaints to the FCC all the time.

Assuming this is a real letter (sorry, creationists have been known to make up crap), we get one single paragraph. Again, forgive me if I don't trust creationists to use quotes in their proper context.

And your site says "spokespersons". But we have one paragraph from one person. Wow, the documentation of this massive assault by science on Cremo is so compelling.

Again, let me put it to you, do you believe fundamentalist Christians are really ready to extend the religious rights they win to satanic religions? Look at their reaction when a Hindu wants to say one prayer in congress. Junior doesn't even view Catholics as Christians. They're followers of Satan.


Last edited by mindmetoo on Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God will punish America! It's true. I saw it in a movie with Lorne Greene. Giant tidal wave or something.
Un- fucking -believable!
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