Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Tiger Beer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070822/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

[W.T.Carl]

Had it crashed in Korea or Germany or Japan would you say the same thing? Planes crash and choppers also crash especially while flying at night. Get a grip.

[Teufelswacht]

As the article also mentions, rotary-wing A/C are used extensively to transport troops because of the threat of roadside bombs. The more flight hours, the more chance of mechanical difficulties/crashes.

I'm not up on statistics but in regards to the UH-60 Blackhawk I have to ask:

1. How many are in Iraq?
2. What is the average number of flight hours per air frame per month?
3. What is the total number of flight hours per month for the entire fleet?
4. How many were brought down by hostile fire and not mechanical difficulties?
5. How many troops were killed or injured in UH-60's compared to the number killed or injured in vehicle attacks/accidents?
6. How many of the UH-60 accidents were due to pilot error versus mechanical difficulty?
7. How many were brought down by inclement weather (sandstorms)?

The article states that since 2003 "dozens" (nice vague number) of helicopters have "crashed" or been brought down by hostile fire. OK, how many crashed and how many were brought down by hostile fire?

Since the following basic RW A/C are in service in Iraq in addition to the UH-60:

UH-1
AH-1
AH-64
CH-47
CH-53
HH-1
HH-3
OH-6
OH-58

How many have been crashed due to mechanical difficulties and how many have been brought down by hostile fire? Now, how many flight hours per air frame per month? How many crashed due to pilot error or inclement weather? How does this compare to the workhorse UH-60?

If there is a design flaw or something else that is causing UH-60's to experience mechanical difficulties I am all for addressing the problem, much like the early "Jesus nut" problem on the UH-1's that had to be corrected. However, I don't think giving the impression that they are falling from the sky willy-nilly paints an accurate picture - especially when you consider how many are probably in the air at any given time in Iraq.

Just my two cents.

[Tiger Beer]

[sojourner1]

Guess that's why there is a movie called, "Blackhawk Down". Like any piece of military equipment, it requires lots of proactive preventative maintenance and repairs. I dreaded the extra long hours on top of all my other various duties put into preventative maintenance and repairs on equipment when I served, but it's what keeps you alive and operating efficiently. I seen many lack on preparations and preventative maintenance which led to deaths such as not making sure fuel fittings are sealed with good O rings on a cooking burner unit as it's 10 sticks of dynamic in explosive power or having a weapon blow up in someones face due to carbon deposits causing a chamber jam. Things like neglecting fuel line connections and scraping carbon out of weapons causes fatalities or casualties which happens due to complacency. When morale is down, complacencies increase which is the case now more than ever due to a long meaningless and very costly war in Iraq and the general foulness of the Bush Jr. presidency. I feel bad for them over there and know many of them and often wish I could be with them, but that just isn't possible or right. Aircraft are just too complex for the small time windows allowed between missions so you can't check everything every time and unlike a truck or track vehicle, an aircraft doesn't simply stop on the road for emergency repair, it crashes and is a total loss. All these operational complexities and technical necessities meant 18 to 20 hour days seven days a week when deployed or in the field, but I did it, because I did not want my sh*t blowing up or crashing on me. And then you had the high science of planning, communicating, and collaborating across people from many backgrounds in the strangest of often unpredictable situations.

I would not discourage anyone wanting to join the military, because it is a dam good developmental learning experience for young adults, but like any special opportunity, there is a level risk that is higher than for those who stay home twiddling their thumbs wishing they could do interesting things like see the world. Want to learn how to be a Jack of trades? This is the beginners crash course. Unfortunately most civilian employers do not recognize the great technical and leadership talents developed in Americas' armed forces who are just deemed to be a flawed mental illness/legal risk, but many veterans often demonstrate proficiencies later in life through successfully managing a profitable business. It really is tougher for a veteran, especially a veteran classified as disabled in any form, to get a job due to employers having this idea that they would be bringing on increased legal risks, but that's another can of worms for another thread.

[cbclark4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UH-60_Black_Hawk

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/mh60heli_nse.shtml

[stevemcgarrett]

Tiger Beer articulated:

[Gopher]

[Nowhere Man]

[Gopher]

[Nowhere Man]

[stevemcgarrett]

Gopher:

The Ospreys are the way to go. Have any deployed in theater yet?

Nowhere Man:

Don't fret: we never imagined you'd been in the service anyhow.

[Gopher]

[Tiger Beer]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Does anyone remember the first time a US helicopter went down in Iraq? It was a Chinook and seventeen invaders died. It made such headlines. One US senator even made a remark about 'never forgetting the Chinook 17'. I think I'm about the only person besides perhaps him who never forgot it because I remember how ridiculous the remark sounded coming from someone who was promoting an invasion that would cause so much loss of life that of course no one would care about another 17 years later.

What's far more interesting than whether this or that hardware will cause a 2% increase or reduction in US fatalities over the next few years is why such loss of life will keep making fewer and fewer headlines. And of course why the most powerful military ever was engaged in such senseless endeavours.