Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jaderedux2]

GRAMMAR GODS HELP!!!!

After studying all summer I still have no idea how to explain if this is right or wrong. Hence another stupid email about grammar.

I made a power point slide with two cars. One was an old junker and one a Mercedes Benz

I was illustrating the word most.

The Korean Teacher WHO SIMPLY DESPISE THE IDEA OF FOREIGN TEACHERS...Gasps in horror and says you can ONLY USE most if you are comparing 3 or more objects.

The question on the slide says...

Which is the most expensive car Number 1 (the old junker) or Number 2 (the Mercedes Benz)?
Answer: The Mercedes Benz is the most expensive car.

These are middle school students. The goal is to get them talking and speaking in sentences. Grammar like language is somewhat fluid (I think). Half of these kids are afraid to utter a sentence in fear of making a grammar mistake.

I tend to prefer a Cognitive Approach to teaching. Yes grammar must be taught but it can be taught deductively. (rules and then practice)

This grammar-translation approach makes for bored students and student afraid to open their mouth lest they make a grammar mistake.

So is the sentence I am teaching completely off the mark? Is the grammar so horrific that I should be shot or at least forced to listen to Kenny G music or Little River Band both equally painful?

Please help me oh grammar gods of Dave's!

Jade

[Alyallen]

I suck at grammar but my gut is telling me

Which car is more expensive car: Number 1 (the old junker) or Number 2 (the Mercedes Benz)?
Answer: The Mercedes Benz is more expensive.

But once again...I suck at grammar....

[faster]

Sorry to say it, but your KT is right.

Which car is more expensive?
or
Which is the more expensive car?
(Which is the more expensive of the two cars?
Which of the two cars is more expensive?
Which of the two cars is the more expensive?)

[marlow]

Technically the Korean teacher is right. But, for argument's sake, in my mother's family my mother happens to be the oldest twin, and my aunt the youngest twin.

[jeffkim1972]

In general, i'm sorry to say the Koreans are right. The only case i can see your case being applicable is when.

What is the most expensive hotel in the world?
1) The Hotel Martinez
2) President Wilson Hotel

Answer: The Hotel Martinez is the most expensive hotel in the world.

When the answer also happens to simultaneously be the "extremal" or most, least, etc as well, out of the TWO choices.

[jaderedux2]

Thank you all for good explanations. I seriously hate grammar and talked to a copy editor friend and he agrees with most of you. However, also said more and most are commonly used interchangeably but that the sentence should be more not most.

I bow to all those grammarians out there! Kudos and thanks!

Jade

[Privateer]

Most grammar books agree with your teacher and it's a simple way to present the difference between 'more xxx than' and 'most xxx' to hapless middle-schoolers so you might want to just go with it.

However, I recently read somewhere that the 'rule' is just another legacy from the grammar prescriptivists who brought us 'no ending a sentence with a preposition!' and 'don't split infinitives!' and the like; and in fact, in ordinary speech we observe no such distinction between groups of 2 and groups of 3 or more. It's simply that 'more' is relative to something else and 'most' indicates an extreme (to borrow the words of the poster above).

That's probably a lot more difficult to get across. Do you stand up for teaching authentic English and teach them how it really is or do you take the easy option and go along with the books?...

[yawarakaijin]

Damn. Grammatically owned by your non-native co-teacher.

Just playing.

[some waygug-in]

I agree with privateer. This is another hold-over from prescriptive grammar books.

It is not wrong to say, "which car is the most expensive?"

People say this kind of thing all the time when referring to only 2 items.

I would explain to your student that this is a case where grammar books and common usage dis-agree.

People don't really talk according to the rules of grammar books. (although they may agree a lot of the time on some things)

In fact, I would say that ....

"Which car is the more expensive?" sounds wrong unless you complete it with "one" or "car".


Which car is the more expensive one?

Which car is the more expensive car?

Anyhoo, thatz mai tooo sents.

[jeffkim1972]

[jinju]

check your subject line

[refikaM]

Yes, your Korean co-teacher is right. In response to Marlow's post... You use "oldest twin" in that case because you are referring to only that group.. So, since there are only 2 twins, then one is superlative to the other...

[bacasper]

Here in Mexico, some of the Mexican teachers of English know their grammar very well. Heck, they even knwo some archaic rules I was not even aware of (oops, of which I was not even aware).

To answer the OP's question, the KT is correct. "More " is for comparing two items, "most" for three or more. If you are talking about two cars and ask which is the most expensive, it means one of those two is the most expensive IN THE WORLD (or in the country, or on this used car lot or whatever reference group you are talking about), i.e. more than three. To compare just the two, "Which is more expensive?" is correct.

[some waygug-in]

Nope.


There are only 2 cars in question, therefore in that specific group of 2 cars, one car is superlative to the other (in price).

So it is perfectly correct to say, "Which car is the most expensive?"

[faster]