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Black children left out of Irish schools
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Alyallen



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Black children left out of Irish schools Reply with quote

Black children left out of Irish schools By SHAWN POGATCHNIK, Associated Press Writer

DUBLIN, Ireland - Almost all the children who could not find elementary school places in a Dublin suburb this year were black, the government said Monday, highlighting Ireland's problems integrating its increasingly diverse population.

The children will attend a new, all-black school, a prospect that educators called disheartening.

About 90 children could not find school places in the north Dublin suburb of Balbriggan , a town of more than 10,000 people with two elementary schools. Local educators called a meeting over the weekend for parents struggling to find places and said they were shocked to see only black children.

"That overwhelmed me. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I just find it extremely concerning," said Gerard Kelly, principal of a school with a mixture of black and white students in the nearby town of Swords.

The parents at Saturday's meeting in a Balbriggan hotel said they had tried to get their children into local schools but were told that all places had to be reserved by February.

Almost all of the children are Irish-born and thus Irish citizens, under a law that existed until 2004.

Some parents questioned why white families who had moved this year into the town had managed to overcome the registration deadlines to get their children into schools.

Some also complained that Ireland's school system was discriminating against them on the basis of religion. About 98 percent of schools are run by the Roman Catholic Church, and the law permits them to discriminate on the basis of whether a prospective student has a certificate confirming they were baptized into the faith. Some of the African applicants were Muslim, members of evangelical Protestant denominations or of no religious creed.

Education Minister Mary Hanafin said the problems reflected bad planning amid rapid population growth, not racist attitudes at existing schools. She vowed to get the new school, which will take students aged 4-12, integrated with white students as soon as possible.

"I would not like to see a situation developing where it is an all-black school, so it's something to keep an eye on for next year's enrollments," Hanafin said.

Kelly said some parents, both locals and immigrants, "felt forced or coerced to have their child baptised to get a place in their local Catholic school."

More than 25,000 Africans have settled in Ireland since the mid-1990s. Most arrived as asylum seekers, and many took advantage of Ireland's law � unique in Europe � of granting citizenship to parents of any Irish-born child. Voters toughened that law in a 2004 referendum.

http://tinyurl.com/34fso4
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Pligganease



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read that this morning. It reminded me to get in contact with one of the numerous Irish pricks I've had drunken debates with who've made sure to point out how racist we are in the south. Rolling Eyes

Modern day segregation, it is.
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alyallen quoted a source that said:

Quote:
Some also complained that Ireland's school system was discriminating against them on the basis of religion. About 98 percent of schools are run by the Roman Catholic Church, and the law permits them to discriminate on the basis of whether a prospective student has a certificate confirming they were baptized into the faith. Some of the African applicants were Muslim, members of evangelical Protestant denominations or of no religious creed.


So what's the problem? Ireland is a Roman Catholic country. Nobody forced these blacks there at gunpoint, did they? They get granted citizenship for having children in their adopted country, which is rare and generous. So they should familiarize themselves with the laws first. Ireland bucks the European trend toward secularism. That's their CULTURAL choice, which trumps the religous preference of these asylum seekers. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Either accept what is law and work to change or shut up, I say.

I am sick and tired of this pandering to immigrants who should be damn thankful they've got Western nations willing to take them in and give them a better life. Whether they are black, brown or purple is irrelevant, actually. This trend toward immigration demands as some kind of entitlement is ridiculous and inherently unfair to the nationals of the country welcoming them in their midst.

We might not like the religious law but it is THEIR law. How about some Irish moving to Kenya and demanding that certain laws be changed to accommodate their needs? Would there be a public outcry from the Left and black politicos then? I think not.
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just another day



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:

We might not like the religious law but it is THEIR law. How about some Irish moving to Kenya and demanding that certain laws be changed to accommodate their needs? Would there be a public outcry from the Left and black politicos then? I think not.


did ireland colonize parts of africa and change their laws forcefully?
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jinju



Joined: 22 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez, its not like ireland is a real country anyway. They survive off EU subsidies.
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just another day wrote:
stevemcgarrett wrote:

We might not like the religious law but it is THEIR law. How about some Irish moving to Kenya and demanding that certain laws be changed to accommodate their needs? Would there be a public outcry from the Left and black politicos then? I think not.


did ireland colonize parts of africa and change their laws forcefully?


This question is dumb on several levels.
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Paddycakes



Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's ironic given the way the Irish have been looked-down upon in North America and the UK that they should start acting in a racist way themselves...

You'd think they'd be more sensitive to it... But then again I say the same thing about Koreans...
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:

So what's the problem? Ireland is a Roman Catholic country. Nobody forced these blacks there at gunpoint, did they? They get granted citizenship for having children in their adopted country, which is rare and generous. So they should familiarize themselves with the laws first. Ireland bucks the European trend toward secularism. That's their CULTURAL choice, which trumps the religous preference of these asylum seekers. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Either accept what is law and work to change or shut up, I say.

I am sick and tired of this pandering to immigrants who should be damn thankful they've got Western nations willing to take them in and give them a better life. Whether they are black, brown or purple is irrelevant, actually. This trend toward immigration demands as some kind of entitlement is ridiculous and inherently unfair to the nationals of the country welcoming them in their midst.

We might not like the religious law but it is THEIR law. How about some Irish moving to Kenya and demanding that certain laws be changed to accommodate their needs? Would there be a public outcry from the Left and black politicos then? I think not.


What utter bollocks. This law is way past its sell by date and it doesn't just affect immigrants. One of my best friends went to a protestant primary school cos she wasn't baptised a catholic. Her family are athiest. These are government schools and should be inclusive of all. Its not like Ireland is the same uber catholic country it was 20 years ago anyway.


Quote:
Geez, its not like ireland is a real country anyway. They survive off EU subsidies


Your from Canada? Where they still have the Queen on the money? mmm



Quote:
It's ironic given the way the Irish have been looked-down upon in North America and the UK that they should start acting in a racist way themselves...



Completely agree. I had various uncles and aunts move out of Ireland in the 50s and they didn't have an easy time..I think we should remember that. It wasn't that long ago in the scheme of things that signs such as this were in England

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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone explain how it is the parents' responsibility to find a school for their kid? I don't understand the set up in Ireland. (Where I'm from, you just go to the closest neighborhood school. It's up to the school to find a desk and chair for you.)
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddycakes wrote:
It's ironic given the way the Irish have been looked-down upon in North America and the UK that they should start acting in a racist way themselves...

You'd think they'd be more sensitive to it... But then again I say the same thing about Koreans...


There is a reason they say "korea is the ireland of Asia".

Both countries are strikingly similar in:

1) Their ultra-nationalism and racism. You will feel as out of place in Ireland as you will in Korea. Because they see all foreigners as the enemy.
2)Both countries are small and have histories of being invaded and keeping out all foreigners in order to preserve their culture.
3) Both countries have an historic victim mentality.
4) Both countries have a master race philosophy: they think their race is superior and all others are second best. They are homogenous.
5) Both countries are islands: (korea is virtually an island: no borders to any other country). isolated from the rest of the world.
6) both countries have performed an economic miracle, spurred on by patriotic fervour.
7) Both countries don't like anything different from what they're used to.
Cool Both countries have a poor cultural heritage. Lack of diversity or interraction with other cultures.
9) Both countries come out with a similar "warm-hearted" generosity. But behind the superficial welcome, they just want you to leave.
10 ) Both countries populations have emigrated en masse to the west: yet they hate it when a foreigner wants to live in their country.


Take it from me: I have lived 4 years in ireland, and 4 years in korea.


Last edited by nautilus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: Black children left out of Irish schools Reply with quote

from the ARTICLE wrote:
More than 25,000 Africans have settled in Ireland since the mid-1990s. Most arrived as asylum seekers, and many took advantage of Ireland's law � unique in Europe � of granting citizenship to parents of any Irish-born child. Voters toughened that law in a 2004 referendum.

Most of them were NOT asylum seekers.

As far as I understand it, Ireland had a law that anyone born ANYWHERE on the island of Ireland - northern Ireland or Ireland, would be granted citizenship to both that child and their parents.

Many of these 25,000 Africans came into the UK, went to Northern Ireland and had children. Then they immediately became Dublin's responsibility. It was a great loophole in the system which 25,000 Africans were able to spot and take advantage of to become Ireland's lifetime responsibility to education and attempt to assimilate.

I DEFINETELY DON'T agree that they don't have schools available to these offspring. But in societies that are predominately one ethnicity, to suddenly accomodate multiculturalism, its not always the easiest of processes.
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Alyallen



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Black children left out of Irish schools Reply with quote

Tiger Beer wrote:
from the ARTICLE wrote:
More than 25,000 Africans have settled in Ireland since the mid-1990s. Most arrived as asylum seekers, and many took advantage of Ireland's law � unique in Europe � of granting citizenship to parents of any Irish-born child. Voters toughened that law in a 2004 referendum.

Most of them were NOT asylum seekers.

As far as I understand it, Ireland had a law that anyone born ANYWHERE on the island of Ireland - northern Ireland or Ireland, would be granted citizenship to both that child and their parents.

Many of these 25,000 Africans came into the UK, went to Northern Ireland and had children. Then they immediately became Dublin's responsibility. It was a great loophole in the system which 25,000 Africans were able to spot and take advantage of to become Ireland's lifetime responsibility to education and attempt to assimilate.

I DEFINETELY DON'T agree that they don't have schools available to these offspring. But in societies that are predominately one ethnicity, to suddenly accomodate multiculturalism, its not always the easiest of processes.


Yeah, I don't understand how school enrollment works in Ireland, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But it is strange how all these Black students can't get a seat but new residents who are White got their kids into the class. But it's weird...in NYC, too many kids? PAck them in...I mean that beats leaving them out entirely. But you know what the tragic thing is? In a worse case scenario, these kids start out behind, become disenfranchised and 15~20 years, Ireland will be talking about their Black problem Crying or Very sad It's a huge exaggeration but it's the little things that lead to much bigger problems...
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korea, Ireland, Italy, Vietnam, Serbia, Turkey.

All racist, ultra-nationalistic and xenophobic to the core.
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jinju



Joined: 22 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMO wrote:


Quote:
Geez, its not like ireland is a real country anyway. They survive off EU subsidies


Your from Canada? Where they still have the Queen on the money? mmm



Yes we do, however Canada doesnt beg for money from the US like the Irish do from Brussels. Without massive EU subsidies Ireland would remain the backwards potato eating hole it has always been.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
All racist, ultra-nationalistic and xenophobic to the core.


I take it you are holding yourself up as the paragon of virtue in this department.
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