Korean Job Discussion Forums

[pest2]

Im making it a seperate thread and editing certain things out to keep it legal.
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Hey! I've found your message from webpage.
Don't jump to conclusion. I've never heard there is a woman race in
Tour de France either. In the case of road cycle races, I couldn't
find any woman race from World Pro Tour such as TDF.You know what?
the woman race for the OL-Park wheel festival has been cancelled
because only 5 women applied. Do you think the organizing committee
should proceed on the woman race with 5 ladies?
I don't know where you come from, however, cycle is not even popular
to male in Korea for now. Therefore, the organizing committee is
trying to spread out cycle culture step by step. Tour de Korea 2007
is the very first step for that. That's why they invited Lance
armstrong by paying alot of money. Maybe, 10 years later when cycle
become popular, opportunity for women to participate will grow as the
number of women cyclists also grow.
You don't know exact situations in Korea, so stop jumping to your own
conclusion. If you really want to take part in cycle race freely, go
back to your country. I wonder why you are still here although you
are enthusiastic to attend such a race. You always think of your own
objective. If your intention can't be achived, you start insulting
organization and people. Remember that everybody has a reason! If you
pay the expenditure for woman road race in TDK, they might do the
race in spite of that about 10 people take part in. Just stay calm
and watch how the organizing committee develope cycle culture in
Korea, and try to encourage them, not to depress them. And if you
keep complaining and enlarging your own analysis for the TDK, Korean
people might think you ignore Korean. Watch out not breaking out
racism. I bet you know how much Korean are sensitive to nationalism.



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Hello,
[...] You claim that I am doing all this "complaining" out of my own self-interest. However, there are about 100 expat cyclists from other countries living and working here in South Korea who cannot race in this event. I think they will be interested to hear your views. In addition to the fact that there are many people being affected by this other than me, I am leaving Korea in 8 weeks and never coming back (woo hoo!).. so I dont stand to gain much from complaining in the long term.

You said that I dont know the whole story, and you are right. I can only guess that the causes of the race- and gender- discriminating policies of the the TDK staff have to do with Korean nationalistic and chauvanistic insecurity on the part of the race staff, as you said, as well as money. Are some people in Korea this way? Of course they are. I've lived here long enough to see it many times. Is everyone in Korea this way? No, of course not... Your country's desires to achieve international success in the economic and cultural market demands a more open and accepting stance, and many people realize this.

From what I can see, there are still pockets of racism and nationalism alive and well here in Korea that can be none other than a detriment to your country's welfare. But people like you can make a difference insofar as making those pockets go away. I realize the top to bottom, rigid social hierarchy in your country that proscribes complaining to your boss, seniors, and providers, when they are clearly wrong and it would help the situation to do so, makes this extremely difficult. But your own welfare depends on it and I highly recommend you break those chains of bondage you're wearing and catch up to modern times in the world by not letting some racist old men dominate you. I think you can see how such calmness and complacency has failed to allow your country to keep in touch with rest of the world over the last several decades, socially.

About women not being allowed to compete... well the first step for the promoters is to make competition available to women and men of all abilities. If they create a women's race, even if the initial response is low, momentum will build in the future so that it will gain popularity for women.

I realize you have probably never left Korea so you dont realize alot of things about how the sport is promoted and organized. In my 20+ years of cycle racing experience in the USA and Europe, I have seen how the sport has gained popularity for women at the amateur level because promoters and sponsors get the word to them it is available. At the professional level, as you pointed out, the Tour de France has no women's race. However, there are some races open ONLY to women and not to men... because it is professional racing. Professional racing demands satisfaction of the market whereas amateur racing does not. At the pro level, the demand by fans and sponsors creates the races... and in the case of the Tour de France, that demand is for a men's race. However, we are all just amateurs here having fun. Why do we have to discriminate against people for no just reason?

I hope you realize that cycling really is an open, international sport. It is organized internationally by the UCI, and its rules and ideas are more or less the same every where in the world. About 40 years ago, people in my home country, the USA, had no real experience with cycle racing. It was mainly a European sport that no one understood. What made it popular was having European people come to the US and teach Americans how the sport works and what its all about. In the process, of course, American riders were continuously beaten in every race they entered, and it no doubt caused them to feel insecure. However, over time, racing became more popular because we picked up new ideas from the Europeans and became better. I can safely say that if we hadnt taken this approach, there wouldnt even be a famous rider like Lance Armstrong!

I am glad to see that you are very enthusiastic about the sport of cycling. I hope you will see the light and take on the kind of ideas that will truly make it and you succeed.

Because of our own interest and dedication to the sport over many many years, we expats here in Korea have chosen to 'let the world know' -- including Lance himself -- about inappropriate way the TDK staff is handling this situation (dont worry Lance is still coming; you were exactly right about paying him alot of money;).

I hope you dont take it personally. Introduce yourself to me out on the road sometime.


Cheers,







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Dear

Have a nice trip to your country. By the way, did you pay taxes here?

Please try to devote youself to develope your country. As for Korea,

they will do their best. Don't worry about Korea, but think of what

you can do for your country. Thanks for your concern for Korea,

though. And spread this email out to your foreign friends again.

I guess you seem not able to do anything by yourself. You always

need your friends. Don't take it personally either.

I hope you keep only good memories of Korea. I mean it. Bye.

thanks


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[freshking]

I don't know if it will do any good, but posting these emails on Lance Armstrong's website, as well as the sponsors he's involved (Nike,Discovery Channel etc.) which can all be found on his website might be a good shit stirring move.

[Bailsibub]

Freshking,

Another foreign rider here in Korea forwarded all of the emails along with a letter he had sent to the newspapers here to a relative in the States before Lance came. This relative knows Lance, so they gave them to him. He has been informed.

I think the riders here would be pretty happy if Lance saved the day, so to speak. But realistically, that isn't going to happen. Lance is here for the payoff, and for 3 million bucks, I don't blame him.

Is it me or do Koreans seem to have a thing for paying foreigners large sums of money to come here then wanting them to leave?

[Ethan Allen Hawley]

3 - "million" - 'bucks' - as in US dollars 'bucks' - ?!

Wow.

I wonder how many foreigners amateur and women only races that could pay for?

[uberscheisse]

don't you hate it when a situation is clearly unfair and a korean tells you to "calm down"?

i fucking hate that.

and then, once he's told you to calm down, and you're still right, and he's still wrong, and the situation's still clearly unfair, he proceeds to make fun of the fact that you can't stay calm and bend your will to the mindset of the land where common sense and reason went to die?

[wo buxihuan hanguoren]

[Drunken Monkey]

The responses you got are childish but let it go.

Cant you understand that maybe they just arent in a position to allow women to race?

where did you get the following gem from "100 expat cyclists from other countries living and working here in South Korea who cannot race in this event"
43% of facts are made up on the spot!!

I can ride a tricycle so you should make it 101 people who cannot race now.

[pest2]

[SuperFly]

Good on ya pest2 for exposing them for what they are. Good luck. Next time you see a South Korean competing in your home country, make sure to let them know how lucky they are to have the opportunity to participate.

[pest2]

[jdog2050]