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jaderedux2
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Location: lurking just lurking
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 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: |
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I am American and I say let's move on down the road. They don't want us here fine. Oh and btw we are taking the toys and technology with us that we brought. You can now make your own tanks, rent satellite time, guns and all the fun stuff that comes with having a military. I say bulldoze the bases, plant trees and take every nail, board and every piece of military equipment that belongs to the U.S.
Welcome to mandatory 4 year military service and high taxes. Cuz somebody is going to have to pay to rebuild the military.
So boys I say pack it up and lets the Koreans have their country back and the costs that come with running their own military.
Jade |
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Mr Crowley
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| I agree with you Jade. That is fine by me, if they give us a good heads up on when they are leaving. I would hate to wake up one day and find out the won is useless. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| jaderedux2 wrote: |
So boys I say pack it up and lets the Koreans have their country back and the costs that come with running their own military.
Jade |
Exactly. But send them somewhere they're both needed and wanted instead.
I understand theres some desperate folks in Sudan and Zimbabwe crying out for US army intervention.
If they do that, then I'll be a big fan. |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| lastat06513 wrote: |
I was a soldier for 5 and half years, with 2 and half of those years spent assigned in Korea.
One thing every CDR notices is that when there is a training exercise, the crime rate offbase goes down. But once they get back onbase and are at stand-down, the crime rate remarkably goes up....this is especially true for Brigade and Division-level exercises where thousands of service members are participating in the exercise (though I hear that many of the exercises are now conducted onbase, the soldiers are on lockdown for the remainder of the exercise) and I can tell you from a lower-enlisted point of view that once the FTX recovery is complete and they are on stand-down, all hell breaks loose.
Why do you think the CDR-2ID instituted a midnight to 6 curfew offbase thats been in effect since 1995? To curtail the possibility of crimes being committed offbase (and the other reason is the high op-tempo of the division, but the reasons I was given by MPs is the crime rate)
While ETs/FTs might be rowdy and arrogant in their own way, they are far better than the teenage or 20-something soldier after a month-long exercise...
True, there are instances where teachers date local women, but at least they know better than to just get up and leave if the woman is pregnant like soldiers do (which was an issue a long time ago)....
Yes, some teachers use drugs, but alot of them don't get as out of hand as a soldier might after a hard night of binge drinking....
And yes, many of teachers might come to Korea with fake credentials. But I know alot of those people tend to get screwed more by employers and take fewer risks getting their money, so they tend to leave Korea after a certain amount of time, if they arent' married.
True, ETs/FTs are not angels in anyway, but are far better crowd than the average gaggle of soldiers |
This feller knows what he is talking about, spot on with all his points! good job mate! |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
Yes, because making generalizations like that makes you look so enlightened by comparison  |
Oh, I'm sure not *everyone* in the military is like that. But its a safe generalization, as there are so many that are in fact like that, that they've soiled their reputation in X amount of countries.
When I was in the reserves, I heard stories about Canadians being deployed to other countries for peacekeeping (Bosnia et cetera) and discovering that bars/nightlife would shut their doors any time a group of Canadians pulled in en masse because they were afraid that the Canadians might be Americans.
Face it, the American military have a reputation for being ignorant dicks abroad. There are bucket loads of information available on the net (some of which being very reliable) of 18/19/20 year old American GIs going into Iraq and shooting up the place like psychopaths.
Sure, make fun of me because I have a philosophy degree and spent four years studying things like ethics and responsibility (another cosy generalization about all Canadian liberal arts grads being the same). At least I don't delight in getting hopped up on adrenaline and shooting up a town not caring where the bullets end up.
Not to generalize of course, but it happens enough that it is a problem people in most "occupied" countries are aware of regarding American troops. That being blanket ignorance, aggressiveness, and inhuman behaviours. Especially Korea.
PS. I saw a good documentary not long ago, I forget what it was called, but it had many segments on the dehumanizing practices of American military Basic Training courses. There were marching chants about killing Muslim women and children, bombing entire cities, killing them while they pray in their Mosque.
I remember when I did Basic in the Reserves, we had several day-long intensive classes regarding human rights, women's rights, respectful practices abroad et cetera. If we muttered anything under our breath that even closely resembled what American soldiers scream in unison--while training--then we'd be sent home that day without a chance of joining up again in the next six years. They'd even chalk it up to massive psychological problems.
Don't think I'm solely placing the blame on the soldiers. I am kind of hard on them because recruiters without a doubt skim the absolute bottom of the population barrel when it comes to recruiting. I've heard of people having the choice of going the jail or joining the military and being deployed.
I have a more of a problem with the training methods and inherent structure of the US military, which through a complicated and well researched process produces the epitome of "grunts" (mindless killing drones) at the lowest, and most fundamental levels. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
| peppermint wrote: |
| Yes, because making generalizations like that makes you look so enlightened by comparison |
Oh, I'm sure not *everyone* in the military is like that. But its a safe generalization, as there are so many that are in fact like that, that they've soiled their reputation in X amount of countries.
When I was in the reserves, I heard stories about Canadians being deployed to other countries for peacekeeping (Bosnia et cetera) and discovering that bars/nightlife would shut their doors any time a group of Canadians pulled in en masse because they were afraid that the Canadians might be Americans.
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One of my good friends from High School is in the Canadian forces. He did two tours of Bosnia, and him and his buddies can out-ignorant anyone I've ever met, including a lot of American GIs. Isn't it posssible that they were closing the doors because of the Canadians? |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
One of my good friends from High School is in the Canadian forces. He did two tours of Bosnia, and him and his buddies can out-ignorant anyone I've ever met, including a lot of American GIs. Isn't it posssible that they were closing the doors because of the Canadians? |
Yeah, I've met a couple douchebags in the Canadian Forces. By a couple I mean a sizeably large handful. But no majority, and definitely more of a trade specific thing to be honest. Most of the teenagers I met who were new to the infantry were of the "saw too many glorified war movies growing up and played too many video games" persuasion. The kind of folk that thought war might be fun, and not so much so that it appeared on any kind of obvious psychological profile.
It does happen, but the Canadian Armed Forces seem to be far more diverse than the American forces are. I was in airfield engineering, so a lot of people in my basic training course were in maintenance and logistical trades. I did basic when I was 16-17 (birthday halfway through), I was among the three youngest with the next youngest being around 24 and the average age being early 30s. If I was five days younger I'd have to wait until the next year.
People seemed to have all different backgrounds, and overall they seemed pretty decent. Many were from backgrounds where not that much was available to them and they just wanted a sense of belonging and benefits. I just wanted structure and also some sense of belonging.
When you hear about the American military it feels somewhat disproportionate to what I experienced. Maybe a lot more people between 17-21, most of which were of the type I described earlier (too many movies/games, too young) and the majority being in offensive trades (infantry, armoured, artillery, et cetera).
I don't think the Canadian military, being small and support-like with equal opportunities in a wide variety of trades is any comparison to one of the mightiest war machines in the history of the planet which needs more braun/guns/boots than brains/compassion/empathy. I also doubt the American military distributes vegetarian ration packs, or has at least three vegans/vegetarians in a training course (we did, myself included).
You may have met some bad apples, but I assure you, if you spend some time on a base with a variety of trades you'll quickly discover that they're a minority. The guys I used to serve with were amongst the calmest, most level-headed people you could envision. Most of them were deployed to Afghanistan in the recent years (after I left) and one of them was killed by a roadside bomb, unfortunately. I know that every time they had to raise a rifle they did so with regret and feared actually having to fire--though would if they had to.
Whereas the general vibe I get from the Americans... they count down the minutes until they squeeze that first shoot off. They join to do just that. Its a major difference in military culture. If at first they don't feel like they want to be that way, the culture will grind them down into that kind of person.
A soldier forged like that, in my opinion, needs to be kept in a cage until its time to fight in a place where collateral damage is unlikely.
Romeo Dallaire once commented that the soldiers of the future need to be versed in compassion and understanding. I agree.
Last edited by IncognitoHFX on Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Don Gately
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
Big, redneck retards with overactive libidos lacking a High School education. |
Which is better than dipshit canucks fresh out of college that think they know everything how? |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Don Gately wrote: |
| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
Big, redneck retards with overactive libidos lacking a High School education. |
Which is better than dipshit canucks fresh out of college that think they know everything how? |
You know, when I say stuff like that I'm generally fishing to be proven wrong. Ask several people here, I fish and stir more than I say exactly what I mean. Sometimes I think its pretty obvious, other times I realize that people tend to take things over the internet literally and indicative of my character--for any misunderstandings, I apologize, as all of one's character doesn't necessarily come through text. That's my fault, my game makes more sense in person than it does online.
That, and maybe I'm a little sick of being stereotyped and discounted because I'm A) young (well, 23... which is not *young* but here it seems to mean diapers), B) fresh out of university, C) A Canadian liberal Arts grad and C) fresh in Korea.
It must be pretty annoying when Americans get stereotypes thrown at them, which is really easy to do. Well its also annoying being characterized by another bunch of retards, these being hemp wearing Starbucks poseurs from Canada who make pretentious asses of themselves and run the country when the real world comes crashing in on them.
I like it here, I can stomach it for a long time. I know that already, quit discounting a person you don't even know based on a bunch of stereotypes and maybe I won't feel the need to feel like a cornered cat in here all the time.
| Mosley wrote: |
Here's a guy who's 23(right?), just got a philosophy(!) degree from a rinky-dink univ. in Nova Scotia(a province w/a fine military tradition, I might add...though Incognito apparently insulated himself from such savagery by gazing starry-eyed at some tenured hack droning on about Marx or Sartre), and now he's here in the Land of the Morning Garbage Truck passing judgement on those who are largely responsible for his having his hakwan opportunity. Since ya don't get it, I'll spell it out fer ya:
Those big, horny, retarded, redneck(and above all, uneducated) GIs do more for Western civilization in one day of training than do all the Engrishee teachers on this peculiar peninsula in a year.
Give me an "uneducated" GI over a MISeducated Canadian liberal arts grad anyday. |
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Don Gately
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
| Don Gately wrote: |
| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
Big, redneck retards with overactive libidos lacking a High School education. |
Which is better than dipshit canucks fresh out of college that think they know everything how? |
You know, when I say stuff like that I'm generally fishing to be proven wrong. Ask several people here, I fish and stir more than I say exactly what I mean. Sometimes I think its pretty obvious, other times I realize that people tend to take things over the internet literally and indicative of my character--for any misunderstandings, I apologize, as all of one's character doesn't necessarily come through text.
That, and maybe I'm a little sick of being stereotyped and discounted because I'm A) young (well, 23... which is not *young* but here it seems to mean diapers), B) fresh out of university, C) A Canadian liberal Arts grad and C) fresh in Korea. Its pretty annoying when people throw stereotypes at Americans, which is really easy to do. Well its also annoying being characterized by another bunch of retards, these being hemp wearing Starbucks poseurs from Canada who make pretentious asses of themselves and run the country when the real world comes crashing in on them.
I like it here, I can stomach it for a long time. I know that already, quit discounting a person you don't even know based on a bunch of stereotypes and maybe I won't feel the need to feel like a cornered cat in here all the time. |
I'm basing my opinion on your first post where you told everyone what a great English instructor you were, said that another guy "sucked", and had a remedial grammar mistake in the midst of it all.
But the fact that you're young and think you know everything also doesn't help.
Pep's been here a long time. Known GIs, known teachers. Seen a lot of come, seen a lot of go. If she says you're off base, maybe you should have enough self-awareness to wonder if you might be. |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Don Gately wrote: |
Pep's been here a long time. Known GIs, known teachers. Seen a lot of come, seen a lot of go. If she says you're off base, maybe you should have enough self-awareness to wonder if you might be. |
So, once you've been here awhile you can stereotype and condemn the newbies all you want. You've earned it, right? Once you're a certain age you deserve respect and are entitled to dish out hatred? You don't have to try and relate anymore, don't have to think about what you were like when you first came? Just with the hatred?
Sounds a lot like certain unreasonable ajossi people point out so often on here.
I know I'm not perfect but my actions and reactions here are often a product of how I'm received. Optimism is met with pessimism and hatred, pessimism is met with stronger pessimism, and the only way to fit in is to dish it out faster than you can take it.
I know there are a million better, less emotion-fuelled ways I could manage myself on here, but I don't care much about my reputation on this place as from what I can tell, very few people here are worth meeting.
Last edited by IncognitoHFX on Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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wo buxihuan hanguoren
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Location: Suyuskis
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Yes, Dumb Lately, Peps has 'been here a long time'. How she did it with her looks and her 'personality' is beyond me, but yes, she has 'been here a long time'.
Well said. |
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Don Gately
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
You don't have to try and relate anymore, don't have to think about what you were like when you first came? |
On the contrary, you are exactly what I was like when I first got to Korea. I think that's what makes it so infuriating.
Hopefully you come through wiser but with some of the optimism still intact.
Demonizing GIs or demonizing Muslims or demonizing Koreans or demonizing in general is all counterproductive. No one is the villain in the story of their own lives. I've known good hippy Canadians and I've known good American GIs, and I've known assholes of the same breeds. It's true that people interacting with the one asshole out of the same group paint the rest with the same brush. I just think we should fight against that impulse if we can and take them as individuals. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
So, once you've been here awhile you can stereotype and condemn the newbies all you want. You've earned it, right? Once you're a certain age you deserve respect and are entitled to dish out hatred? You don't have to try and relate anymore, don't have to think about what you were like when you first came? Just with the hatred?
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Beg your pardon? WHO was dishing out hatred exactly?
| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
Big, redneck retards with overactive libidos lacking a High School education. |
That looks like a rather large steaming pile of hatred to me, all I did was call you on it |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Gately wrote: |
| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
You don't have to try and relate anymore, don't have to think about what you were like when you first came? |
On the contrary, you are exactly what I was like when I first got to Korea. I think that's what makes it so infuriating.
Hopefully you come through wiser but with some of the optimism still intact.
Demonizing GIs or demonizing Muslims or demonizing Koreans or demonizing in general is all counterproductive. No one is the villain in the story of their own lives. I've known good hippy Canadians and I've known good American GIs, and I've known assholes of the same breeds. It's true that people interacting with the one *beep* out of the same group paint the rest with the same brush. I just think we should fight against that impulse if we can and take them as individuals. |
I think we're as on the same page as we're ever going to get, so yes, I agree completely. This place really gets on my nerves. I can't reveal an opinion, no matter how well thought-out or non-invasive or anything, without feeling like I'm being judged on the criteria I've posted above. Often I'm attacked on any one of those criteria, or all of them simultaneously, which makes me want to provoke it and fight in the open rather than with random snarky-ness.
Guess the only way to prove to this place that I'm not a running, washed up, half-baked, liberal arts grad Canadian is simply to be here for a long time and gravitate away from newbism. Or dump the place altogether. I don't really think its helping me adjust to Korea like it used to. I have my friends for that. |
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