|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Bramble wrote: |
Yes. That's how a reasonable person would have construed the Canadian's comment. Unfortunately, not everyone here is capable of reasonable, rational thinking and logic.  |
OK... Let's say that your sister was drunk, crashed her car, and died. Every time I see you, I say, "Hey. Your sister was a drunk driver. That's why she died." Reason, rationality, and logic would say, "That is a true statement. It's not offensive to me." However, would it make you angry? I bet so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pligganease wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| Yes. That's how a reasonable person would have construed the Canadian's comment. Unfortunately, not everyone here is capable of reasonable, rational thinking and logic. |
OK... Let's say that your sister was drunk, crashed her car, and died. Every time I see you, I say, "Hey. Your sister was a drunk driver. That's why she died." Reason, rationality, and logic would say, "That is a true statement. It's not offensive to me." However, would it make you angry? I bet so. |
I don't think it's a very good analogy. No one suggested that the people in the towers were responsible for the attacks ... not me, not the other posters in this thread, and not the Canadian in The Bobster's anecdote (based on what he's told us). It sounds as if the Canadian was criticizing the leaders of the U.S., and The Bobster read in some hidden meaning that just wasn't there.
I don't get it. Most Americans I know are far more critical of their leaders, and of the direction their country is taking, than I could ever be. I wouldn't blindly defend Canada or feel insulted if someone pointed out that we have (probably) the world's most stupid politicians ... On the contrary. I'd be the first to agree.
Last edited by Bramble on Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
| nateium wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
One thing that surprises many U.S citizens when they travel the world is the fact that other people are very happy living in their own countries and are actually NOT climbing fences to try and get into the USA.
|
Sure not everyone is clamoring to get a USA visa, but that's not the point. I challenge you to find a statistic from another country that takes more immigrants on a yearly basis. |
But, that IS the point. I want to rebutt the argument made by one or two posters here, perpetuating the myth that that more people want to leave their own countries and live in the U.S.A than are willing to stay put in their own homelands. This was the point of my argument, not whether the U.S takes more or less immigrants than other countries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
unknown9398
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Location: Yeongcheon, S. Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
| jinks wrote: |
| But, that IS the point. I want to rebutt the argument made by one or two posters here, perpetuating the myth that that more people want to leave their own countries and live in the U.S.A than are willing to stay put in their own homelands. This was the point of my argument, not whether the U.S takes more or less immigrants than other countries. |
Well clearly, it was a gross exaggeration, and everyone with sense understood it to be so. It's not really necessary to drive the point home. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
| unknown9398 wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
| But, that IS the point. I want to rebutt the argument made by one or two posters here, perpetuating the myth that that more people want to leave their own countries and live in the U.S.A than are willing to stay put in their own homelands. This was the point of my argument, not whether the U.S takes more or less immigrants than other countries. |
Well clearly, it was a gross exaggeration, and everyone with sense understood it to be so. It's not really necessary to drive the point home. |
I think it helps shed some light on the credibility of the OP. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bramble wrote: |
| I don't get it. Most Americans I know are far more critical of their leaders, and of the direction their country is taking, than I could ever be. I wouldn't blindly defend Canada or feel insulted if someone pointed out that we have (probably) the world's most stupid politicians ... I'd be the first to agree. |
Then again, you don't have to do that every time you step out of the house, do you? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
| Bramble wrote: |
| unknown9398 wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
| But, that IS the point. I want to rebutt the argument made by one or two posters here, perpetuating the myth that that more people want to leave their own countries and live in the U.S.A than are willing to stay put in their own homelands. This was the point of my argument, not whether the U.S takes more or less immigrants than other countries. |
Well clearly, it was a gross exaggeration, and everyone with sense understood it to be so. It's not really necessary to drive the point home. |
I think it helps shed some light on the credibility of the OP. |
Given your history with the OP, why would you come on this thread and continue to badger him? Do you like rubbing salt in the wounds? I've met Bobster and his wife. I think he's nothing like some of the posters here in this thread are making him out to be. Can you move on and let bygones be bygones? What's your motivation for continuing to make him out to be what he's not? I'm just curious. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Blah blah blah...gotta love how conversations go way off track here.
To answer the hmm questions (?) of the OP, I do not talk about 9/11 to anyone. Korean, American, Dutch, I don't give a *beep*...I don't discuss it. I'm a native New Yorker and I have not gone down to ground zero, I didn't slip into hyper-patriotic mode like a lot of Americans I know and I don't participate in the spectacle which is public discussion on this subject because it would just piss me off like this thread did...
That is all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
| SuperFly wrote: |
| I think he's nothing like some of the posters here in this thread are making him out to be. |
Indeed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
| SuperFly wrote: |
| I've met Bobster and his wife. I think he's nothing like some of the posters here in this thread are making him out to be. Can you move on and let bygones be bygones? What's your motivation for continuing to make him out to be what he's not? I'm just curious. |
i've met them too. bobster's a stand up guy. but it seems that he, himself, is one of the posters making himself out to be what i thought he wasn't at all like. i'm surprised to hear some of this 'my-country-is-better-than-yours' pettiness coming from him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fresh Prince
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
I was talking to some German guys that had some interesting perspectives. From their perspective, they U.S. was making way too big a deal about the whole thing, and should move on. On the other hand, they were highly emotional and nationalistic about the bombing of Dresden and wanted the U.S. to publicly apologize. At the end of our conversation, we agreed that Germany was using the bombing of Dresden as a political tool to invoke nationalistic sentiment and garner votes, in the same way that the U.S. was using it's tragedy to involke nationalistic sentiment and garner votes.
| Bramble wrote: |
| unknown9398 wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
| But, that IS the point. I want to rebutt the argument made by one or two posters here, perpetuating the myth that that more people want to leave their own countries and live in the U.S.A than are willing to stay put in their own homelands. This was the point of my argument, not whether the U.S takes more or less immigrants than other countries. |
Well clearly, it was a gross exaggeration, and everyone with sense understood it to be so. It's not really necessary to drive the point home. |
I think it helps shed some light on the credibility of the OP. |
Healthy discourse is when people fundamentally disagree with each other on some issues and agree with each other on other issues. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
| SuperFly wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| unknown9398 wrote: |
| jinks wrote: |
| But, that IS the point. I want to rebutt the argument made by one or two posters here, perpetuating the myth that that more people want to leave their own countries and live in the U.S.A than are willing to stay put in their own homelands. This was the point of my argument, not whether the U.S takes more or less immigrants than other countries. |
Well clearly, it was a gross exaggeration, and everyone with sense understood it to be so. It's not really necessary to drive the point home. |
I think it helps shed some light on the credibility of the OP. |
Given your history with the OP, why would you come on this thread 2 and continue to badger him? Do you like rubbing salt in the wounds? 1 I've met Bobster and his wife. I think he's nothing like some of the posters here in this thread are making him out to be. Can you move on and let bygones be bygones? What's your motivation for continuing to make him out to be what he's not? 3 I'm just curious. |
1. Salt in what wounds, exactly? The wounds of September 11th, or The Bobster's personal "wounds"? The latter are just the predictable result of his own disgraceful behaviour - and the fact that you happen to like him in real life doesn't change that. If you're his friend, you should really tell him to get a grip, because he's obviously losing it.
2. Why shouldn't I participate in any discussion I feel like taking part in? He doesn't own the site, and he doesn't stay out of "my" threads, in case you haven't noticed. You might try asking him about his motives for directing so much abuse and condescension at other people, including (of course) me.
3. I haven't. This isn't the first time he's engaged in hyperbole or twisted the truth in an argument. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11 |
|
|
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
Healthy discourse is when people fundamentally disagree with each other on some issues and agree with each other on other issues. |
I might agree with the OP on the occasional point once in a while - but if so, it's most likely an accident.
Maybe we'll see some "healthy discourse" on another thread soon?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| endofthewor1d wrote: |
| really, dude. if that isn't an implication that you think canada sucks and the sun shines out of america's ass, please give me a hypothetical example of something one might say that would more clearly imply that one thought so. |
Um, how about if I said, just hypothetically, you see, that "Canada sucks and the sun shines out of America's ass." That would clearly state what you assert I am implying. Your problem, though, is that I never said nor implied it - the Canadian dude DID definitely imply that 2500 people died in the Twin Towers for some (unstated, but presumably good) reason.
He didn't want to actually SAY that, because any fool would know it would lead to fisticuffs in short order. But did he imply it? Yes, he did.
Did you notice that what you are criticizing me for saying is something I intentionally refrained from speaking out loud? Instead, I commented on a maple leaf sewn on a backpack, and the reasons for it. He could have laughed it off, I guess, or bit his tongue like I did. He didn't. People are free to talk any crap they want about America - heck, I do all the time - but they DO get a little thin-skinned when a hint is dropped on their own laps that their country might not be any great shakes either.
Bramble :
| Quote: |
| That's how a reasonable person would have construed the Canadian's comment. Unfortunately, not everyone here is capable of reasonable, rational thinking and logic. |
Horse's mouth. The poster above is someone who supports terrorist organizations when they set off bombs in labs that are trying to find cures for cancer, HIV and diabetes (3 causes of death for people I've been close to in my life, who are, in her words "irrelevant"). Hypocrisy is an evil thing. Disavow immediately the enthusiasm you have expressed in the past for the ALF and other extremist activists like them. Then, people might listen to you.
| Quote: |
| I think it helps shed some light on the credibility of the OP. |
This is a supporter of violent terrorist activity who is talking to you now. Pay attention to what she says.
jinks :
| Quote: |
| I want to rebutt the argument made by one or two posters here, perpetuating the myth that that more people want to leave their own countries and live in the U.S.A than are willing to stay put in their own homelands. |
I think what I said - what I tried to say - is that despite the many who burn American flags around the world, most people who want or need to leave their own country, their first thought is not, "I want to start a new life in Canada." They are thinking, "Let's go to America!"
As someone said, statistics will likely back this up, but as I mentioned earlier, you don't need them. Just drop by an American Embassy and see the people standing in line. Pick a country, just about one will do. You will see a line of people waiting patiently to fill out a form and hope it gets a stamp on it. You can say I am wrong, but I am not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bobster, do you have a clue what the ALF is, what its members stand for? Once again, you've misrepresented me and what I've said in the past ... as well as the nature of the ALF. Further proof that you lack credibility altogether.
Animal Liberation Front FAQs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
