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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: Global warming in Greenland.. |
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By James Painter
BBC News, southern Greenland
Top scientist Professor Minik Rosing was stunned to hear the news from his native Greenland a few days ago.
The main weekly newspaper, Sermitsiaq, was highlighting a quarrel between shop owners and farmers about the price of potatoes.
"The price of potatoes was a headline," says Professor Rosing. "That would have been a hilarious joke in Greenland a few years ago."
Professor Rosing is one of his country's most famous sons, after discovering the earliest traces of life in rocks in West Greenland, that are more than 3,800 million years old. Like his fellow countrymen, he is deeply concerned about global warming, and particularly the effects of rapidly melting ice on the traditional life of hunters in the north of the country.
But higher temperatures are also bringing some benefits to the sub-Arctic south part of the island.
"I could buy broccoli in the shops for the first time this year," says Buuti Pedersen, a 52-year-old artist who was born and lives in the southern town of Qaqortoq. "And the potatoes are big, fresh and tasty - much better than the ones that come from Denmark."
Pace of change
I come from a hunting family. Five of my uncles were hunters - now only two are
Aleqa Hammond, Minister for Finance and Foreign Affairs.
Potatoes have been grown in southern Greenland for several years, but because of global warming they can be planted earlier, which means better yields. Local farmers are now selling a surplus to the rest of the country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6993612.stm |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Thus a specialised, charming and unique way of life is replaced by a standard globalised culture.  |
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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Gee, I guess Greenland is as warm as it was 1000 years ago. Boy, man made global warming returns. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| W.T.Carl wrote: |
| Gee, I guess Greenland is as warm as it was 1000 years ago. Boy, man made global warming returns. |
Gee, I guess the Arctic was ice-free 1000 years ago, too! Oh? It wasn't? Silly me. But they are right next to each other! How DOES that happen?
How uneducated on this issue do you have to be think that climate is the same globally? Ever? This has been pointed out repeatedly, but cooling and warming happen unevenly all over the world. You can have an otherwise upward trend in warming AND have spikes downward... just like any complex system.
Gee....
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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey cretin, I would suggest that you might study some history. 1000 years ago Greenland was open for animal husbandry. England was a wine producing region that rivaled France. When you can raise sheep in Greenland and I can enjoy an excellent bottle of British red, then I might consider that there is Global Warming. But until then get real. We are merely coming out of the Little Ice Age. Keep in mind just how long records have been kept. And are you really sure the artic wasn't ice free in summer back then? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Vikings did report grapes were growing where they landed. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: Greenland |
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| I saw a news report today that the North West Passage is now open, ice free in summer, & causing Canada security problems. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
I saw a news report today that the North West Passage is now open, ice free in summer,
& causing Canada security problems. |
Would stand to reason.
Smuggling etc.
Then again, US subs have been 'active' throughout the inside passage for years.
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| The Vikings did report grapes were growing where they landed. |
Hence VIN-land?
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:37 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| W.T.Carl wrote: |
| Hey cretin, I would suggest that you might study some history. 1000 years ago Greenland was open for animal husbandry. England was a wine producing region that rivaled France. When you can raise sheep in Greenland and I can enjoy an excellent bottle of British red, then I might consider that there is Global Warming. But until then get real. We are merely coming out of the Little Ice Age. Keep in mind just how long records have been kept. And are you really sure the artic wasn't ice free in summer back then? |
I don't know who you are addressing that to, sir. Would you clarify that, so the appropriate person can take out his or her pistol. As far as to your point, I am sure Greenland must have been green at one point.
However, many species on the planet will get wiped out on the planet, people will have to make radical changes to their lives in certain areas.
People in the northern areas of the globe will be generally less affected
by global warming according to some speculation. There will be more pressure for Africans to leave certain areas of Africa. Parts of the West will, none-the-less be hit very hard no matter what. As one professor said to me, "The Earth finds its balance somehow and how humans fit in that is not the Earth's concern". I suppose I would say these words are from Professor Poirier whose classes I enjoyed. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| W.T.Carl wrote: |
Hey cretin,
I would suggest that you might study some history. |
And I would suggest you master English. Nowhere in my post did I say the things you said about Greenland were not true. Note my second sentence and your sentence about global warming returning. See if you can figure it out.
One of the false claims naysayers toss about is this, "Well, this happened in the past, so this and that couldn't be true!" You completely ignore that climate is a non-linear system. You ignore that anomalous events occur. You ignore that the system is so complex that instability might just lead to a spike in warming/cooling that seems unexplainable... until we find the evidence. You also tend to take single events out of the context of the global system, as you do here. The temperature, weather and climate in any one spot on the planet will not give you the state of the full planet.
Hell, if there had been water north of Canada and and Russia, we'd know about it. See if you can figure out why.
A small tutorial for you: They have found dinosaur bones in Antarctica and Australia from epochs when those areas should have been too cold, based on the locations of those land masses at the time and the global temperatures as determined by proxies, for dinosaurs. Big dilemma, no? Well, turns out, not so much. The reason turns out to be startlingly simple. Climate is not a function of air temperature alone. Geography also plays a part. Turns out, due to the arrangement of the land masses at the time, the ocean currents, winds, etc, kept the area warmer than had been realized... DURING A GENERAL PERIOD OF COOLING.
In other words, it was a localized condition. That area of the globe should have been cooler, but the interior of the land mass wasn't that cold.
Much like the Little Ice Age. While, in reality, the signals from the period known in Europe as the Little Ice Age can be found all over the globe, that strong cooling happened, you guessed it, primarily in Europe because of a slowing or shut down of the thermohaline circulation.
You don't know enough about this topic to challenge me, carl.
But, you're a wonderful human being, Carl. Good job!
kisses... |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a little context for you, Carl. note the bolded section, friend. Nobody is trying o pull wool over your eyes. There is no conspiracy, except on your side. (Check out the latest posts on the Global Warming thread for yet another example of the lying and deceit of your camp.) Also note there the change in the Bush Faction's stance on GW. Your behind the times, friend. Even King Georgie is leaving you behind.
Ancient records help test climate change
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By BRADLEY S. KLAPPER, Associated Press Writer Sat Sep 15, 10:50 AM ET
EINSIEDELN, Switzerland - A librarian at this 10th century monastery leads a visitor beneath the vaulted ceilings of the archive past the skulls of two former abbots. He pushes aside medieval ledgers of indulgences and absolutions, pulls out one of 13 bound diaries inscribed from 1671 to 1704 and starts to read about the weather.
"Jan. 11 was so frightfully cold that all of the communion wine froze," says an entry from 1684 by Brother Josef Dietrich, governor and "weatherman" of the once-powerful Einsiedeln Monastery. "Since I've been an ordained priest, the sacrament has never frozen in the chalice."
"But on Jan. 13 it got even worse and one could say it has never been so cold in human memory," he adds.
Diaries of day-to-day weather details from the age before 19th-century standardized thermometers are proving of great value to scientists who study today's climate. Historical accounts were once largely ignored, as they were thought to be fraught with inaccuracy or were simply inaccessible or illegible. But the booming interest in climate change has transformed the study of ancient weather records from what was once a "wallflower science," says Christian Pfister, a climate historian at the University of Bern.
The accounts dispel any lingering doubts that the Earth is heating up more dramatically than ever before, he says. Last winter � when spring blossoms popped up all over the Austrian Alps, Geneva's official chestnut tree sprouted leaves and flowers, and Swedes were still picking mushrooms well into December � was Europe's warmest in 500 years, Pfister says. It came after the hottest autumn in a millennium and was followed by one of the balmiest Aprils on record.
"In the last year there was a series of extremely exceptional weather," he says. "The probability of this is very low."
The records also provide a context for judging shifts in the weather. Brother Konrad Hinder, the current weatherman at Einsiedeln and an avid reader of Dietrich's diaries, says his predecessor's precise accounts of everything from yellow fog to avalanches provide historical context.
"We know from Josef Dietrich that the extremes were very big during his time. There were very cold winters and very mild winters, very wet summers and very dry summers," he says, adding that the range of weather extremes has been smaller in the 40 years he has recorded data for the Swiss national weather service.
"That's why I'm always cautious when people say the weather extremes now are at their greatest. Without historical context you lose control and you rush to proclaim every latest weather phenomenon as extreme or unprecedented," Hinder says.
Most historians and scientists delving deep into archives seek accounts of disasters and extreme weather events. But the records can also be used to obtain a more precise temperature range for most months and years that goes beyond such general indicators as tree rings, corals, ice cores or glaciers.
Such weather sources include the thrice-daily temperature and pressure measurements by 17th-century Paris physician Louis Morin, a short-lived international meteorological network created by the Grand Duke of Tuscany in 1653, and 33 "weather diaries" surviving from the 16th century. In Japan, court officers kept records of the dates of cherry blossom festivals, which allow modern scientists to track the weather of the time.
Early records often are only discovered by chance in documents that have survived in centuries-old European monasteries like Einsiedeln, or in the annals of rulers, military campaigns, famines, natural hazards and meteorological anomalies. In Klosterneuberg near Vienna an unidentified writer notes a lack of ice on the Danube in 1343-1344 and calls the winter "mild," while the abbot of Switzerland's Fischingen Monastery laments the late harvest of hay and corn in the summer of 1639 when "there was hardly ever a really warm day."
Scores of similar clues are pieced together year by year to determine temperature ranges, says Pfister, whose team of four uses old "weather reports" to work back as far as the 10th century.
Pfister has found that from 1900 to 1990, there was an average of five months of extreme warmth per decade. In the 1990s, that number jumped to an unprecedented 22 months. The same decade also had no months of extreme cold, in contrast to the half-millennium before.
Even in the last major global warming period from 900 to 1300, severe winters were only "somewhat less frequent and less extreme," Pfister says. Over the past century, temperatures have gone up an average of 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit, which is often attributed to the accumulation of greenhouse gases, primarily carbon dioxide, in the atmosphere.
Global warming is one of the world's top issues today because of fears of massive hurricanes and flooding. For most of history, though, it was the fate of farms and the fear of famine that encouraged careful weather observation.
The Einsiedeln abbots � princes within the Holy Roman Empire until 1798 � were powerful leaders who ruled over large swaths of central Switzerland's mountainous terrain. Agriculture was the primary source of income for the region and natural disasters such as floods and avalanches posed an omnipresent threat.
Debts accrued and honored, accidents, local conflicts and business transactions also fill Dietrich's accounts, "but most days start with the weather," says Andreas Meyerhans, who cares for the monastery's precious documents.
The diaries � written in German sprinkled with old Swiss dialect and margin notes in Latin � are "unique" because of the exceptional everyday detail they provide, Pfister says. He adds that centuries of weather records make it clear that people need to adapt when extremely hot or cold weather becomes more frequent. While the lives of earlier generations were ruled by the weather, "in the second half of the 20th century people slept and became completely unprepared for natural disasters, because they happened so rarely."
In Einsiedeln, Hinder reads from a barometer flanked by the Virgin Mary, and worries that humanity is in trouble.
"God still controls the weather," he says. But, he adds, people must do their part by taking better care of the planet. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Absolutely nothing kills a thread better than BLT. Nothing. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Absolutely nothing kills a thread better than keane. Nothing. |
Having a tantrum, are we? Two, and counting? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Greenland |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| I saw a news report today that the North West Passage is now open, ice free in summer, & causing Canada security problems. |
Posted: 01/28/2006 Post subject: Arctic ice melt opens Northwest Passage By JAMEY KEATEN
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Arctic ice melt opens Northwest Passage By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 35 minutes ago
PARIS - Arctic ice has shrunk to the lowest level on record, new satellite images show, raising the possibility that the Northwest Passage that eluded famous explorers will become an open shipping lane.
The European Space Agency said nearly 200 satellite photos this month taken together showed an ice-free passage along northern Canada, Alaska and Greenland, and ice retreating to its lowest level since such images were first taken in 1978.
The waters are exposing unexplored resources, and vessels could trim thousands of miles from Europe to Asia by bypassing the Panama Canal. The seasonal ebb and flow of ice levels has already opened up a slim summer window for ships.
Leif Toudal Pedersen, of the Danish National Space Center, said that Arctic ice has shrunk to some 1 million square miles. The previous low was 1.5 million square miles, in 2005.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070916/ap_on_sc/northwest_passage
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