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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: It's time to... say we've had enough. |
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Amen.
More than 190 arrested at D.C. protest
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By MATTHEW BARAKAT, Associated Press Writer 33 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Several thousand anti-war demonstrators marched through downtown Washington on Saturday, clashing with police at the foot of the Capitol steps where more than 190 protesters were arrested.
The group marched from the White House to the Capitol to demand an end to the Iraq war. Their numbers stretched for blocks along Pennsylvania Avenue, and they held banners and signs and chanted, "What do we want? Troops out. When do we want it? Now."
Army veteran Justin Cliburn, 25, of Lawton, Okla., was among a contingent of Iraq veterans in attendance.
"We're occupying a people who do not want us there," Cliburn said of Iraq. "We're here to show that it isn't just a bunch of old hippies from the 60s who are against this war."
Counterprotesters lined the sidewalks behind metal barricades. There were some heated shouting matches between the two sides.
The arrests came after protesters lay down on the Capitol lawn in what they called a "die in" � with signs on top of their bodies to represent soldiers killed in Iraq. When police took no action, some of the protesters started climbing over a barricade at the foot of the Capitol steps.
Many were arrested without a struggle after they jumped over the waist-high barrier. But some grew angry as police with shields and riot gear attempted to push them back. At least two people were showered with chemical spray. Protesters responded by throwing signs and chanting: "Shame on you."
The number of arrests by Capitol Police on Saturday was much higher than previous anti-war rallies in Washington this year. Five people were arrested at a protest outside the Pentagon in March when they walked onto a bridge that had been closed off to accommodate the demonstration, then refused to leave. And at a rally in January, about 50 demonstrators blocked a street near the Capitol, but they were dispersed without arrests.
The protesters gathered earlier Saturday near the White House in Lafayette Park with signs saying "End the war now" and calling for President Bush's impeachment. The rally was organized by the ANSWER Coalition and other groups.
Organizers estimated that nearly 100,000 people attended the rally and march. That number could not be confirmed; police did not give their own estimate. A permit for the march obtained in advance by the ANSWER Coalition had projected 10,000.
Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan told the crowd is was time to be assertive.
"It's time to lay our bodies on the line and say we've had enough," she said. "It's time to shut this city down." |
Again: Amen.
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| About 13 blocks away, nearly 1,000 counterprotesters gathered near the Washington Monument, frequently erupting in chants of "U-S-A" and waving American flags. |
That many?
Maybe things are turning. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I am less inclined to support a cause that has demonstrations that become disorderly and/or violent. I think the general public feels much the same. In fact, I think it is harmful to the cause. It gives the pro-war crowd an opportunity to change the subject from the cause to arguments over tactics.
Something like 2/3's of the public already agrees the war was a mistake. Members of Bush's own party are bailing out on him. It's clear which way things are going. At this point, the anti-war movement should be focusing on electing sympathetic candidates in next year's election. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasn't this rally organzied by international ANSWER? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| At this point, the anti-war movement should be focusing on electing sympathetic candidates in next year's election. |
Um, and how many more dead between now and the next election?
End this thing. End it now.
We already elected Democratic majority, but they are too busy being politicians. Bush is already making noises about troop reductions, but the main reason is they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for recruits (high-school drop-outs and the like) and there's only so much you can keep extending tours of duty before fatigue makes the forces on the line pretty much useless. Best option : declare victory and retreat. Seriously.
If the numbers are accurate, something close to 1% of all the people there did anything to get them arrested. That's less than an average day in Detroit, I think. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I am less inclined to support a cause that has demonstrations that become disorderly and/or violent. I think the general public feels much the same. In fact, I think it is harmful to the cause. It gives the pro-war crowd an opportunity to change the subject from the cause to arguments over tactics.
Something like 2/3's of the public already agrees the war was a mistake. Members of Bush's own party are bailing out on him. It's clear which way things are going. At this point, the anti-war movement should be focusing on electing sympathetic candidates in next year's election. |
This nation was created by civil disobedience. If police hit, the public has the right to self-defense. The police should be arrested, not the protesters. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| they don't have a right to violent protests. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Word from most ordinary Iraqis is that they want the US to stay and keep some level of security.... |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| Word from most ordinary Iraqis is that they want the US to stay and keep some level of security.... |
Link? |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| they don't have a right to violent protests. |
Don't lie. There was no violent protest. There was very limited violence in response to policing using limited violence.
Don't lie. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
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The organizers of the protest met with police prior to the protest and they all agreed on the rules when the permits were issued. Those arrested violated the rules when they jumped the fence. Others were arrested for obstruction of justice or to be more specific interfering with a police officer during an arrest. The trespassers were probably released after the protest, the obstructers probably a while latter after a records check and full processing.
Civil disobedience is not a license to commit an offense and not realize the consequence. In the most effective cases civil disobedience is meant to overwork the system, to use up valuable Police resources to tie up the courts and to unecessarily use up jail space.
Most riotous protests occur when law enforcement lacks the resources necessary to arrest he symbolic trespassers, fence jumpers etc.
For a real education on the effective uses see "The Clam Shell Alliance", a very effective use of civil disobedience (though misguided).
There really is no symbolism in a protest without some arrests for acts of civil disobedience.
If Sam Adams had been caught for his "nation founding" acts of "Civil Disobedience" he would have been hung and probably wihtout a trial. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Oh geez, the police should have beaten the crap out of them.
P.S. Keane, aint taking the bet eh? |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
Oh geez, the police should have beaten the crap out of them.
P.S. Keane, aint taking the bet eh? |
Your posts are disgusting and repulsive. Your ban should have been permanent. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: |
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To put this story in perspective, it's worth pointing out that there WERE pro-Vietnam war counterdemonstrations during the 1960s (if you check the historical record), and some prominent Americans - namely John Wayne - were on record as supporting the war in Vietnam.
But by 1971, even the AFL-CIO and many businesspeople were turning out in droves to participate in antiwar protests. West Point could not fill its incoming class of 1972 because the war and the military were so unpopular in the public mind. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| EFLTrainer wrote: |
| It's time to...say we've had enough. |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| End this thing. End it now. |
Gentlemen: you may, of course, post whatever you like here. In BLT's case you may post your message again and again and again and again, shouting down anyone who you think stands in your way...or in Bobster's case you may chant "End this thing. End it now." like a kind of mantra every time you post (or nearly so).
Very fine.
However, I question your relationship with reality. This is Dave's ESL Cafe. What exactly do you think you can accomplish in this venue?
Finally, I suggest you stop talking the talk -- talk is cheap, you know -- and actually walk the walk, like the men-of-conviction you say you are on this anonymous message board.
Get a ticket and join the next protest in D.C. Otherwise, one can legitimately ask: do you stand for your beliefs or not? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Um, and how many more dead between now and the next election?
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The horrific number of deaths is being caused by Iraqis (and their friends) blowing each other up. That will not stop when we leave. |
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