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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: Ont. Voters reject faith-based education: poll |
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TORONTO � A furor over John Tory's unpopular proposal to fund faith-based schools does not appear to have altered the fundamental dynamics of the Ontario election campaign, a new poll shows.
More than 70 per cent of voters opposed the policy,
�The fact is, people are really objecting to it,� said Mr. Woolstencroft, referring to the faith-based schools proposal. �They just don't want religion to be mixed with school funding.�
The poll found that 71 per cent of those surveyed said they totally oppose having the province fund Jewish, Muslim and other religious schools. Those opposed include voters of all political stripes as well as 69 per cent of those described as visible minorities. Only 26 per cent of those polled support the policy.
Mr. Tory, who spent Monday campaigning in Chatham, Ont., told reporters he believes that most Ontarians will eventually come to understand that funding for faith-based schools is a matter of fairness. �I think that Ontarians are an inherently fair people,� he said. |
http://www.theglobeandmail.com
70% of the voters are dead right.
But Tory, who uses the idea of "fairness" to push this is exposing the multicultural lie. All cultural assumptions are equally "good" and "bad". What is taught in a Catholic school in Canada will be all together different than what is taught in a madrassa. To accept both isn't "fair" because content matters.
Both have to go. A total separation of church and state is needed if Canada is to avoid religion creeping back into public life. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank goodness Ontario people still have sense. Our tax dollars should not fund religions. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Thank goodness Ontario people still have sense. Our tax dollars should not fund religions. |
Neither should ours... |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Don't they still fund Catholic schools? I think they do.  |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Don't they still fund Catholic schools? I think they do. |
You didn't read the article.
Yes, they fund Catholic schools. And they are going to extend the same courtesy to non-Catholic schools under the banner of "fairness". My point, in saying "both" have to go is that all religious schools should not be funded.
Also, at this point, I fully support banning all religious schools entirely. To hell with the religious. A secular education is the only acceptable education. A "religious" education isn't an education at all.
Total separation of church/mosque and state.
And an end to the tax-free status of religious organizations is now my #1 desire. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| And an end to the tax-free status of religious organizations is now my #1 desire. |
I disagree with this only to the point that a lot of charitable works are performed by churches, and they get the funds to do those works through their tax-free status. Most of the income a church receives has already been taxed anyway. If you remove the tax exemption, tax money will have to make up for some of the charity that many churches donate.
But, I agree about the schools. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| And an end to the tax-free status of religious organizations is now my #1 desire. |
I disagree with this only to the point that a lot of charitable works are performed by churches, and they get the funds to do those works through their tax-free status. Most of the income a church receives has already been taxed anyway. If you remove the tax exemption, tax money will have to make up for some of the charity that many churches donate.
But, I agree about the schools. |
I think the negative are less serious than the positives, in this case. Tax-free status is a government subsidy of religion. And it must end.
Besides, if Churches care so much, they can cut back on advertising and wage expenses and continue to focus on charity. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not worrying about this. Tory is desperate too try and convince anyone he is the antithesis of Mike Harris. He knows that no school teacher (or anyone with children) will vote for him after the screwing that was the "common sense" revolution, so now he is pandering to the huge ethnic communities in Toronto (and its environs) to try and get some votes.
I don't like McGunity but the NDP are totally unelectable in Ontario and the Tories have not yet been forgotten.
And no I don't support funding for any school. including the stupid Catholic system. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Don't they still fund Catholic schools? I think they do. |
Yes. I do believe it is written into the constitution, however. Catholics would only give their support to a British style Canada if their rights were guaranteed in the constitution. I think the Ontario government currently funds Catholic schools beyond what is required by the constitution, however. We could certainly go back to Catholic funding to the grade 10 level. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| I don't like McGunity but the NDP are totally unelectable in Ontario and the Tories have not yet been forgotten. |
I ran into a dilemma like that. Usually vote liberal but if drunk enough I could vote NDP. However, after the NDP messed up Ontario and the Liberal party leader at the time was anti-homosexual, I couldn't the hell figure out who to vote for. I actually voted for the PCs, as they seemed to be the only ones talking balanced budget. I even once voted Reform in a federal election. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| Don't they still fund Catholic schools? I think they do. |
Yes. I do believe it is written into the constitution, however. Catholics would only give their support to a British style Canada if their rights were guaranteed in the constitution. I think the Ontario government currently funds Catholic schools beyond what is required by the constitution, however. We could certainly go back to Catholic funding to the grade 10 level. |
Yes, I'm aware that it was written into the constitution, at a time in Canada's history when such a provision may have made sense. That section of the constitution has been irrelevant for many years, though, and people have been trying to change it for many years. I'm sure other provinces have done away with the archaic religion-based school system, which is totally unfair to all non-Catholics ...
Ontario can do it too. If that doesn't happen, then the only reasonable alternative is to fund all kinds of religious schools, not just Catholic schools. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| Don't they still fund Catholic schools? I think they do. |
Yes. I do believe it is written into the constitution, however. Catholics would only give their support to a British style Canada if their rights were guaranteed in the constitution. I think the Ontario government currently funds Catholic schools beyond what is required by the constitution, however. We could certainly go back to Catholic funding to the grade 10 level. |
Yes, I'm aware that it was written into the constitution, at a time in Canada's history when such a provision may have made sense. That section of the constitution has been irrelevant for many years, though, and people have been trying to change it for many years. I'm sure other provinces have done away with the archaic religion-based school system, which is totally unfair to all non-Catholics ...
Ontario can do it too. If that doesn't happen, then the only reasonable alternative is to fund all kinds of religious schools, not just Catholic schools. |
Why is that the only "reasonable" alternative? Are you saying that all religions are exactly the same? All are equally deserving of legitimacy?
I'm against all state-religion interaction. But the reasoning you showed there is exactly the kind of thinking that is going to seriously set back the path of progress in the West. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Because it's unfair to fund Catholic schools and deny funding to other religious schools. Canada isn't a Catholic country, or a Christian country with two main factions (as it was at the time the constitution was drafted). Canadians hold a wide variety of religious beliefs nowadays, and many of us aren't religious at all.
I dislike the idea of segregating schools along religious lines, but if they're unwilling to change the constitution and get rid of publicly funded Catholic schools, they should at least be fair to everyone. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
Because it's unfair to fund Catholic schools and deny funding to other religious schools. Canada isn't a Catholic country, or a Christian country with two main factions (as it was at the time the constitution was drafted). Canadians hold a wide variety of religious beliefs nowadays, and many of us aren't religious at all.
I dislike the idea of segregating schools along religious lines, but if they're unwilling to change the constitution and get rid of publicly funded Catholic schools, they should at least be fair to everyone. |
And it's unfair to build a bridge to PEI using federal tax dollars and not a bridge to Vancouver Island. It's an inherently unfair constitution. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
Because it's unfair to fund Catholic schools and deny funding to other religious schools. Canada isn't a Catholic country, or a Christian country with two main factions (as it was at the time the constitution was drafted). Canadians hold a wide variety of religious beliefs nowadays, and many of us aren't religious at all.
I dislike the idea of segregating schools along religious lines, but if they're unwilling to change the constitution and get rid of publicly funded Catholic schools, they should at least be fair to everyone. |
So, to you, treating religions equally is more important than any problems associated with extending cash to all religions? That is, the lie is more important than anything else? |
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